Hi, lovely ones. The episode to follow is one of the feature interviews in a four-part series I’m doing to offer you a little insight into the power of intentional business mentoring.
In this series, I work with full remarkable women in business to help them shift mindset blocks and open up the possibilities available to them as entrepreneurs.
Each interview is filled with the most beautiful vulnerability and courage and a truckload of hard and heart truths for what it takes to create a meaningful impact in the world.
If this episode resonates with you, my upcoming 12-week program, intentional business, the experience for entrepreneurs is exactly what you’re looking for.
It’s in this program, the most in-depth and incredible experience I’ve ever created, that you’ll get a chance to experience your own intentional business mentoring for yourself.
Enrolment opens for a very limited number of spices in February 2020. And you’ll find all the details on my website, Rebeccaray.com.au.
Rebecca Ray: Hi, lovely ones. As we’ve just finished our series on burnouts, I want to invite you to enter a new series of episodes with me, I’m particularly excited about this series of episodes, because as an intentional business mentor, I wanted to show you the work that I do.
Rebecca Ray: I wanted to give you a little insight into what it’s like to undergo intentional business coaching. This is in the lead up to the launch of the programme that I’ve developed, that is the most in depth, most transformative and most exciting program I’ve ever created.
Rebecca Ray: And that’s intentional business, the experience for women entrepreneurs, a 12-week mastermind experience that can take you from where you are right now to where you want to be in business.
Rebecca Ray: But first, how do you know you want to do something like that unless you know what you’re getting. And so I want to take you through a series of episodes where I interview, remarkable women in business, who are out doing amazing things in the world, to show you what coaching looks like. We’re starting a little unusually, today with a conversation with my wife.
Rebecca Ray: Now, for those of you out there who are coaches yourself, I just want to give you a little heads up, this is a slight boundary violation.
Rebecca Ray: So I really don’t want you to think that you can just go around coaching your partner, because that doesn’t necessarily go down.
Rebecca Ray: Well, however, Nyssa and I had a conversation recently about something that was happening for her in business that she found really helpful.
Rebecca Ray: And so my caveat here is, whenever you’re working with your partner, perhaps you both run businesses, or perhaps you’re both working in the same business.
Rebecca Ray: One of the rules I guess we have maybe we don’t call it a rule. But I guess one of the practices that we have together is that we don’t necessarily throw advice at each other unless it’s asked for.
Rebecca Ray: And in this case, Nyssa asked me what my thoughts were on this particular issue she was facing in business. And we had quite a deep conversation about these issues that I thought you could you might be able to relate to, as well.
Rebecca Ray: So I want you to meet Nyssa, my wife, who is a musician who has the skills to both produced music and to create music.
Rebecca Ray: She’s a singer, songwriter, as well as a multi-instrumentalist, and now our producer in the studio, so you do so many other things.
Rebecca Ray: So I’m going to let you take over here because I’ll get the explanation of exactly what your business does probably not as succinct as what you could get it. So what do you do?
Nyssa Ray: Well, I run a home studio and I record musicians artists and songwriters. And for those people who play an instrument and write music, but don’t have the ability to record it themselves.
Nyssa Ray: So I’ve done a lot of a lot of hours now working on my own music. And now I have the privilege of working on other people’s music in my own home studio. And that’s where I do right now.
Rebecca Ray: So you bring people’s dreams to life?
Nyssa Ray: Oh, I like that. Oh,
Rebecca Ray: I think you do, I think one of their really lovely, lovely things about what you do is you have the skills to take someone else’s music, and to make it the best it can be.
Rebecca Ray: Like you said, with skills that they don’t have themselves and I’ve seen your clients and how they respond to listening to what you do with their music, and you can see it in their face, you bring people’s dreams to life.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah, well, that’s lovely. Yeah, I didn’t bring my dreams. I just love you. You’re a, you’re a dream maker.
Rebecca Ray: So let’s chat again, about the issues that you were having in business recently. Do you want to give listeners a bit of a rundown as to what was showing up for you and where the blocks were?
Nyssa Ray: I guess I’ve got many blocks, because I come from more the creative side of my brain, rather than the analytical side and the organisational side.
Nyssa Ray: So I have many blocks in terms of anything really to propel a business forward. But the one and I am learning in being your wife really helps because of the conversations we have.
Nyssa Ray: And I learned from osmosis, really, by looking at what you do. So hence why this conversation was so awesome. I have a client at the moment, who is making an album with me, and they write amazing music.
Nyssa Ray: And I feel so passionate about their music, and they’re just very, very inspirational as a musician and a creator. So I’m, I feel privileged to be able to record them. But they hard up for money at the moment.
Nyssa Ray: And their project is taken, I guess years now to be where it is now. And it’s still not finished.
Rebecca Ray: Wow. Yeah, it’s a long time for an album to be.
Nyssa Ray: Not back in the day, but it is now technology the way it is, yeah, yeah, you could, you could essentially create an album in a month.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah, even less maybe been and knowing this, that it is taking this long, and knowing that I want them to be able to put out their music sooner rather than later, before all the inspiration or the motivation dries up.
Nyssa Ray: Because that’s the thing too, that happens when you are creative. Now that I know that they are hard up for money, I’ve been doing some extra work on their songs.
Nyssa Ray: So for instance, maybe I’ve added a drum part or a keyboard part, or maybe saying some vocals that only I could do and I didn’t really need to bring them into the studio for me to be able to do that for them to just look at me do it.
Nyssa Ray: You know, so I’ve, we’ve the arrangement was that we, I would invoice them and they would pay that invoice.
Nyssa Ray: It’s now a few invoices, and they still haven’t paid the invoices. However, I’m in the sessions, that we’re doing one on one, and they preferred way of paying is cash.
Nyssa Ray: So I’m able to get paid for the session that we see each other, but not necessarily the sessions that I invoice.
Rebecca Ray: So what I’m hearing is, there’s a couple of things here. Let’s break this down. So you have face to face sessions, and then this work that you do on clients music when they’re not present in the studio.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah.
Rebecca Ray: And this person pays when they’re working in the studio with you face to face in cash.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah.
Rebecca Ray: And then sometimes you work on their music when they’re not present. And that time is invoiced.
Rebecca Ray: But you haven’t been paid for those invoices correct. And what I’m hearing is you love their music.
Rebecca Ray: You’re a huge encourager and proponent of their music, you acknowledge that there’s financial hardship.
Rebecca Ray: So there might be some time that you’re actually working for free, that there’s some boundaries that are being crossed, and you’re not necessarily doing anything to enforce or defend those boundaries.
Rebecca Ray: And it also sounds like there’s just a few sentences ago, I heard this frustration in your voice, that it was taking so long to get this project finish.
Rebecca Ray: It’s almost like it’s or at least it sounds like to me that you’re invested in this person’s music being offered into the world in a timely manner.
Rebecca Ray: Perhaps more invested in from a time perspective than they are themselves.
Nyssa Ray: Yes.
Rebecca Ray: Is that right?
Nyssa Ray: Yes. Yeah.
Rebecca Ray: Okay. So the mindset issue is that I want to talk about first, if it’s okay with you, okay, it’s boundaries.
Nyssa Ray: I hear that word a lot. In out house
Rebecca Ray: Are you willing to go? It’s got nothing to do with the fact that I’ve just written a book on boundaries.
Nyssa Ray: Sometimes we’ll be out in the kitchen, if you like, I’ve got to tell you about this boundary thing. I just realised, you do this. Don’t do this.
Rebecca Ray: Everyone has boundaries? issues. Can I just say that out loud.
Rebecca Ray: And boundaries, I think can be particularly sensitive, that can be a sensitive area that especially in business, but also in life as well, when you’re really kinds like you are, you are.
Rebecca Ray: Quite literally the kindest person I’ve ever met. And I think that one of the things that can happen is when that kindness just naturally emanates from you, it can be difficult to see where boundaries exist.
Rebecca Ray: And then to give yourself the courage and the strength to defend those boundaries when they’re being crossed, especially if you like the person that you’re working with.
Rebecca Ray: And it’s not like there’s any bad blood.
Nyssa Ray: No, no. And I think in this case, I have a lot of empathy for the hardship they are going through.
Rebecca Ray: Absolutely. The thing is, though, here’s the thing. Here’s the thing. You’re in business to make people’s dreams come true.
Rebecca Ray: But you’re not in business, so that you can’t eat at the end of the day, because you’re not being paid for your time. And I think what I’m hearing is that you’re out of integrity.
Rebecca Ray: So one of the things that happens when our boundaries are crossed, especially if we do nothing about it is we end up in a little place I like to call resentment Ville.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah, I think I’m living in.
Rebecca Ray: If you’re not living there, that’s where you drive to either pitched a tent. All right, you visited, you pitch your tent in resentment Ville.
Rebecca Ray: And perhaps it’s not all that comfortable. The thing is, this is gonna keep happening. And one of the most common questions I get asked about boundaries is:
Rebecca Ray: How do I communicate? How do I communicate my boundaries in a polite, kind, calm, effective way without hurting people’s feelings.
Rebecca Ray: And this is the difficult thing, because you can’t always communicate your boundaries and take control for how somebody receives them.
Rebecca Ray: Because the thing about boundaries is that it triggers all sorts of reactivity in everyone.
Rebecca Ray: But that’s not your responsibility. Your responsibility is creating processes and systems in your business in a way that makes business sustainable for you.
Rebecca Ray: So that you can help people make their dreams come true without burning out without becoming resentful, resentful, because you’re not being paid for your time.
Rebecca Ray: And also, by acknowledging that this business supports your dreams, too. And yet, you’re coming last year.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah.
Rebecca Ray:: Your clients are coming first. And you’re coming last. And I’d love to say that balance be a little more equal, where your time and your skills are acknowledged as being incredibly valuable.
Rebecca Ray: And you pay this such Now I know that you’re much more comfortable now charging for your time than you used to be.
Rebecca Ray: It’s always a bit of a head had some practice now. Absolutely. Something that I had to have practising.
Rebecca Ray: I think it’s something. Yeah, I think it’s something that we all need practising.
Rebecca Ray: Initially, I remember when I started in profit practice, as opposed to just having a job as a psychologist and, and I didn’t have a receptionist at the time, it was just me.
Rebecca Ray: And so I would treat the client and then have to sit there with my EFPOST machine, and print out the invoice and hand over the invoice and take the money and I felt really weird, especially because you just step out of a therapeutic space and into an admin space almost.
Rebecca Ray: And you’re doing the same thing, because you don’t have an assistant that then does all the money stuff and follows up unpaid invoices for you.
Rebecca Ray: So it’s almost like you have to swap multiple head spaces in order to be able to do that.
Rebecca Ray: But what’s also coming into this is because you have such a long term relationship with this client, because it’s been going on for a couple of years. And it sounds like you want to continue having a relationship with this client.
Rebecca Ray: You’ve got some space in your business relationship with them. That hasn’t been well defined.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah.
Rebecca Ray: And I’m going to save this really gently.
Rebecca Ray: Okay,
Rebecca Ray: I’m just holding Nyssa up by the shoulder listeners. I am gonna say this really gently. It’s your fault.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah, it’s your fault. It’s your fault that this space has not been well defined. But the good news is, the good news is we can do something about it.
Nyssa Ray: Okay, the bad you’re gonna you’re gonna call in though
Rebecca Ray: I’m not gonna I’m gonna I’m not gonna do the thing. I’m not going to do think she can tell listeners, but there’s a thing coming. And that thing is that boundaries,
First of all need to be defined.
Second of all need to be communicators.
And third, they need to be defended.
Rebecca Ray: Now, probably defended is not the word that I necessarily want in this case, because I don’t want you to interpret that.
Rebecca Ray: That there’s impending conflict because that’s not always the way listeners, often people cross boundaries, because just boundaries haven’t been communicated effectively.
Rebecca Ray: And because they can. And that’s what’s happened with you, I think Nys, is that you are in a place where you’ve let this client not pay invoices.
Rebecca Ray: And so what motivation is there to pay them when he’s got financial hardship, and you’ve set my consequences around that?
Nyssa Ray: Yeah, I guess I, in the back of my mind and heart when they get out of hardship, then I might be thought of.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah, and I love that. I love that you just said that, because it speaks to giving up your control.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah.
Rebecca Ray:: And so many of us do this when we just want to be kind and not step on anyone’s toes.
Rebecca Ray: And what you’re saying is, I hope that they’re going to set the boundary for me and meet that boundary for me, because I don’t want to have the conversation. And it’s hard and it feels uncomfortable.
Rebecca Ray: This is really, really common. It’s not just you, often, we just really wish that other people would do the hard work for us, so that we can avoid conflict so that we don’t need to upset anyone so that we don’t want to rock the boat.
Rebecca Ray: The problem is, I doubt that they’re going to Yeah, because you’ve set up a situation where life’s really easy, this business relationship is really easy for both of you. But there is definitely some crossing of boundaries on their part.
Rebecca Ray: And there’s some lack of boundaries on your part, because I’ve not been communicating.
Rebecca Ray: So his thing,
Nyssa Ray: there’s another thing,
Rebecca Ray: oh, there’s another thing, we’ve got multiple things happening. And that’s that a conversation needs to be had.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah.
Rebecca Ray: You need to honour yourself by having this conversation to get out of resentment Ville, and come back into a place of integrity.
Rebecca Ray: This is about being able to activate the conscious and courageous part of you internally, the part of you that’s aligned with the life that you want to lead, and the person you want to be.
Rebecca Ray: And that part occasionally gets into a war with the other parts of us that are unconscious and that hushing and have unmet needs and are driven by fear.
Rebecca Ray: So it’s like the parts of you that are brave, in a bit of a war with the parts of you that are scared, the parts of you that are brave need to lead here.
Rebecca Ray: And in order to be able to do that, what you need to do is to be able to have this conversation to get back into a place of integrity.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah, I know this on many levels. But when it comes to delivering whatever I need to deliver in that conversation, and I choose not to.
Rebecca Ray: Tell me what comes out for you when you get to that place where you’re sitting with the client, and you could have the conversation because there’s air time available to be talking.
Rebecca Ray: But you don’t what happens what what kind of things do you think and what kind of feelings do you feel?
Nyssa Ray: I just feel really uncomfortable.
Rebecca Ray: Do you know what the feelings call if you really gonna if you’re gonna give it a label? What would it be?
Rebecca Ray: She’s screwing up her face was this.
Nyssa Ray: It’s like dirty money coming feeling.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah, absolutely. And so talking about money feels dirty.
Nyssa Ray: Yes. Right.
Rebecca Ray: So there’s a money block right there.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah, I didn’t know you had that. Yeah, this is news to me. Sorry. That’s so interesting. Dirty, that money’s dirty or somehow it makes to you know.
Nyssa Ray: It’s not always dirty. But when I know that there is financial hardship on the other side.
Nyssa Ray: The kindness part of me takes takes over but then where I live in resentment, resentment Ville, is that what you call?
Rebecca Ray: Yes,
Nyssa Ray: Is when I know that I’m, I’m not. I’m not living in integrity for providing for you guys for my family.
Nyssa Ray: Or I’m also taking time away from a client that possibly values that values, their session and values, my skills more than this person that for some reason.
Nyssa Ray: We’re now in a bit of a habit. I’m in a bit of a habit with this particular client and Yep, it’s just dirty money.
Nyssa Ray: That’s the thing
Rebecca Ray: This is amazing. Let’s, let’s disentangle the complexity. Okay, so there’s habitual lack of boundaries with this client that makes you feel safe.
Rebecca Ray: Because you don’t have to have confronting conversations that potentially might hurt their feelings.
Rebecca Ray: Because they already going through the hard stuff. financially.
Nyssa Ray: Yes.
You’re not entering that space because it feels uncomfortable and unsafe emotionally, and you don’t want to be that person.
You mentioned that it feels like, that’s a crossing of your boundaries because you think of us, our family. And if you’re not being paid, then you’re not contributing in the same way to our family financially.
Nyssa Ray: Yep.
Rebecca Ray: At least as I really want you to understand the web that happens with this emotionally that when our boundaries aren’t defended, it affects multiple areas of our life in this way.
Rebecca Ray: So this is really normal for it to have a number of tentacles, you know, they’re kind of go left, right and centre.
Rebecca Ray: The other thing that you said was that you feel like there might be other clients out there that pay you on time, without any chasing required, and that makes you feel more valued.
Rebecca Ray: And so there’s a sense that, and this is what happens in resentment field, it all happens behind the scenes secretly, emotionally deep down, is that you actually feel undervalued when your invoices aren’t paid.
Rebecca Ray: And that starts to simmer in the background, and perhaps will affect the creativity if you would this client, because what’s hanging over your head is this cloud of being out of alignment and not being in integrity?
Rebecca Ray: Because you haven’t communicated your own boundaries?
Nyssa Ray: Yeah, yeah. And talking about the many tentacles like if we go even deeper to why I think there’s a money block, particularly with this client, and in the work that I do, it’s Audible, you can’t see it.
Nyssa Ray: If I do work, at another instrument, sing another vocal line, it might take me hours and hours, to perhaps, play that drum kit part to a guitar part that wasn’t played in time.
Nyssa Ray: So therefore, I might need to go back and edit that guitar part before I even get to the drums that I was invoicing for. That invoice then turns into, from $300 to maybe $600.
Nyssa Ray: Like I’m just making it up. But that’s at the end of the day, no one can see the effort and the time in what I do if they’re not in the room.
Rebecca Ray: And this is such a common dilemma for service providers. So I know copywriters feel like this, I know anyone that graphic designers, anyone that does a service base, where you go and you take your time and your skills.
Rebecca Ray: And you will apply that to a project for a client, that getting paid for that full project means that you need to have systems in place to track your time and to communicate clearly with the client about what happens behind the scenes.
Rebecca Ray: So that they understand where that time is gone. That’s a systems issue. And yeah, listen, that’s not necessarily my area, despite the fact that I’ve organised.
Rebecca Ray: When we’re talking about international business, the experience for women entrepreneurs, in that experience for the 12 weeks that we work together, I bring in experts for different areas of business.
Rebecca Ray: One of those is a systems and strategy expert. So back to mindset, though, which is my area, and this is what happens, right?
Rebecca Ray: There are tentacles and they spread through the business. But when it boils down to it, what we’re talking about is just one simple thing is simple, but not easy, simple thing is boundaries.
Rebecca Ray: For you to be in alignment with who you want to be as a creator, as an entrepreneur, as a supporter of music makers.
Rebecca Ray: And as a dream maker for those same people, then it’s your boundaries that are going to allow you to do that in a healthy way emotionally so that you don’t feel like you slip into resentment.
Rebecca Ray: Now, I’m not saying that you’ve got to be perfect. And this is really important that your boundaries don’t have to be perfect.
Rebecca Ray: They don’t have to be 100% bang on with perfect assertive communication.
Rebecca Ray: In order for you to get the benefit from having boundaries in place. They just have to be good enough.
Rebecca Ray: And it sounds like the thing you’ve been struggling with this particular client is the boundary started absent. Oh, perhaps that would just really flexible.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah. And to add background to why they started so absent is because I started running a business.
Rebecca Ray: Yes!
Nyssa Ray: It was the very beginning stages, or the very, very beginning in anything of this studio journey.
Rebecca Ray: This person was one of your first clients. Yeah. Okay. So this person is showing up with the same habits as a client in your business as what you had years ago when you started.
Rebecca Ray: But you haven’t communicated as you’ve evolved yet, as a business person?
Rebecca Ray: So it sounds like you’re very different today. Hmm. I know that.
Nyssa Ray: And I’m very different with new people that I meet. Yes, because they’re studying with me from a place where I’ve done a lot more growth and a lot more learning
Rebecca Ray: and systems
Nyssa Ray: and systems are a little bit more nice. I’m not saying they’re fully in place, but a little bit. But for this beginning client, ah, just back to square one.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah, back to baby steps.
Rebecca Ray:: But you’re not.
You’ve come so far.
Nyssa Ray: Not creatively and not musically and not doing the job. But in terms of running the business?
Rebecca Ray: Yeah, you’re not. And the reason I say you’re not, is because your boundaries are brilliant.
Rebecca Ray: Now, with newer clients, you have evolved in business, you’ve learned what doesn’t work by having people cross your boundaries, because they weren’t there in the first place.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah. But because this client is from the your baby beginnings as a business person.
Rebecca Ray: You’re still giving them the power in your business relationship with them. Now, I’m not talking about having power over someone. I’m saying you’re giving away your power about how you run your business, in your relationship with them.
Rebecca Ray: Because you’re carrying out those old habits of just hoping that maybe this week, they might pay that invoice from six months ago.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah. And so while that person continues to carry out the same habits that you’ve developed in your business relationship, you’re hoping, which is not necessarily the most effective business strategy?
Rebecca Ray: Hope. Sounds so silly. When? I don’t know. No, I don’t mean, I don’t mean to make you feel silly, because we all do it.
We all just hope that things will work out without us having to have different difficult conversations.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah.
Nyssa Ray: And I think I continue to do the work that they don’t see. To finish the project. Yeah. Because taht’s what I want.
Rebecca Ray: Yes.
Nyssa Ray: It might not, I haven’t even asked or met, I think maybe we have had this conversation the client and I about, you know, when they want to release it, or whenever they want to finished and, and their response is always whenever it is.
Nyssa Ray: And for me, I’m like, Can we do it as quickly as we can?
Rebecca Ray: Why?
Nyssa Ray: Because it’s now dragging on. It’s now dragging on this. I’m not driving the ship anymore. And I don’t mean that in a controlling way.
Nyssa Ray: I just mean that in a creative way. Because when you’re a creative person, there is always something else to do.
Nyssa Ray: There’s always something some musical element that you think that would be cool. Let’s add that. Let’s add this. Let’s add tambourine, let’s add triangle it does the song really neat triangle?
Nyssa Ray: And do we need to spend 30 minutes on getting the triangle sound perfectly?
Nyssa Ray: No, we do not. And I know that now. But back in the day, my baby was the thing that baby Baby business, this is my baby.
Nyssa Ray: This is I would have spent however long than that person needed on the triangle to make it sound, the perfect team. But it did not add to the music. And I know that now as well.
Rebecca Ray: So now you’re less perfectionistic
Nyssa Ray: Yes, yes. But do you know what?
Nyssa Ray: I used to think perfectionism was a great, great thing. Yeah. But now I think it really is the enemy of complete. It is the enemy of getting yourself out there and putting your work out into the world.
Rebecca Ray: I love that you’re in that place now.
Rebecca Ray: You realise that. And speaking of perfectionism, I wonder if that’s showing up for you, though, when it comes to having this conversation with this particular client?
Rebecca Ray: That if you can’t say it perfectly, then you shouldn’t say it at all.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah, maybe Yeah. And rightly.
Rebecca Ray: So. You’ve moved away from perfectionism when it comes to creating music.\
Rebecca Ray: I think that’s just because you’ve spent so much time now with clients that you understand that it’s good enough truly is good enough, because of the way clients respond.
Rebecca Ray: And they generally love what you do. Yeah, but that doesn’t mean perfectionism disappears from our personalities altogether. Because you overcome it in one particular area.
Rebecca Ray: And so, I’m also wondering when it comes, you know, When you think about sitting down with this client to have the conversation, you kind of go, Oh, yeah. Oh, my goodness, look at the site.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah. Whether or not perfectionism is showing up for you, they’re quite possibly do you worry about what to say?
Nyssa Ray: I worry how to start. Okay. How to bring it out.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah. Right.
Nyssa Ray: And I do think well, why not in person? I think the perfect opportunity is when they’re handing me the cash for the session. We just did. And I just, I go, Hey, what about those other influences? How are you sitting with those?
Nyssa Ray: Like, why don’t I say that? I can say that right here right now.
Rebecca Ray: Mm hmm. Shall we practice?
Nyssa Ray: Oh, huh. Okay.
Rebecca Ray: Feels threatening. Notice the anxiety that came up in you just then. Yeah. Because that’s what’s going to happen when you sit down to have the conversation with this particular client.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah.
Rebecca Ray: So yeah, there’s a reason I did that and just threw that on you listeners, we haven’t.
Rebecca Ray: This is not scripted. Have you realised that by now I’ll actually be in this conversation.
Rebecca Ray: And what I’m intentionally doing is throwing something at Nyssa so that she feels the anxiety that she would feel in that particular presence, having that conversation, so it feels a little more real as we practice this.
Rebecca Ray: So how about I be oyu , and you be the client?
Nyssa Ray: Okay,
Rebecca Ray: I throw some examples at you as to how you might start and have this conversation around the invoices.
Nyssa Ray: Okay. Okay.
Rebecca Ray: Let’s call this client, Sara. Sara, today’s session was awesome. I love your voice. And I love the music that we were creating together. It’s been such a privilege to work with you over the last couple of years.
Rebecca Ray: Thank you for choosing me to bring your music to life.
Nyssa Ray: It’s so much fun. It has been really, really fun. Thanks, Nyssa , you are fantastic. The best producer I’ve ever had and your music skills is totally exceeds my expectations. And just love what he was thinking.
Rebecca Ray: I hope Sara says that to you. Yeah. I’m tightening up my processes and my systems, especially for the coming year.
Rebecca Ray: And I’m not sure if you’re aware, but the studio is very busy at the moment. And to make sure that I can keep track of everything effectively.
Rebecca Ray: Payments need to be settled at the time of each session moving forward. I’m aware that you’ve got some outstanding invoices. And in order for us to move forward with your music, I’m going to need those invoices to be settled before we schedule our next session.
Nyssa Ray: Okay, that’s fair. I can’t ask you to do work that is not being paid for on my material. So I guess that’s fair. Okay. I don’t know when I’ll be able to pay these.
Rebecca Ray: And that’s okay. I understand that sometimes finances are difficult for you. And I want you to know that it’s totally okay for your music to sit on my hard drives, until you’re able to settle your invoices.
Rebecca Ray: And once your invoices have settled, and on completion of those tracks, then I’ll release them to you. But in the meantime, they can sit on my hard drives for as long as you need in order to be able to settle those outstanding invoices.
Nyssa Ray: Okay, thanks, Sara. Yes, sorry, I do like that.
Rebecca Ray: So it might not obviously work out exactly like that. But what you’re doing is just communicating assertively what the boundary is and what you need to happen in order to get back into integrity in the relationship.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah. So this is about you stepping out of resentment Ville and coming back into alignment with the entrepreneur that you are, so that you can clear the air. Which then please the creative there.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah.
Rebecca Ray: For your relationship with this client to move forward. Yeah. Because at the moment, whenever you see them, you’re constantly thinking about those unpaid invoices, aren’t you?
Nyssa Ray: I have the amazing ability to just not see things like that sometimes, too. Yeah.
Rebecca Ray: And the end of the month when you do your bookkeeping, what happens?
Nyssa Ray: Oh, and then I see them.
Rebecca Ray: And then the frustration comes in, right?
Nyssa Ray: Yeah. Yeah, it was it eventually. Yeah. And the accountant goes, What’s What are these? Yeah, what are these? Then I have to embarrassingly say, well, they’re just invoices. I just don’t ask for. Yeah, yeah.
Rebecca Ray: So. A few things about setting boundaries aren’t mean.
Nyssa Ray: I know that now. I didn’t used to I didn’t used to know that.
Rebecca Ray: But setting boundaries is about as much about your relationship with yourself and your your relationship with your business.
Rebecca Ray: You know how we’ve talked in the past about co creating with our businesses and the energies of our businesses and how we want to relate to our businesses in a way that makes them sustainable and exciting and enjoyable for us.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah. So part of that is you setting this particular boundary with this particular client, to get back into alignment with the way you want to relate to your business.
Rebecca Ray: And the way you want to work out into the world when it’s had your stamp on it.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah. Yeah.
Rebecca Ray: And the other thing that I wanted to mention, you’re not responsible for the person that you’re setting a boundary with, and how they respond to that boundary. So you’ve told me a lot about this client?
Rebecca Ray: And it sounds like they’re pretty cool and nice person. Yeah, I very much doubt they’re going to respond negatively.
Rebecca Ray: But oftentimes, when people are sensitive and kind like you, one of the things they panic about when it comes to boundaries, is, oh, my goodness, am I going to upset someone?
Rebecca Ray: Yeah, that’s not your responsibility. What your responsibilities is to set the boundary, and then defend the boundary in the service of being able to run your business effectively, in a sustainable way.
Rebecca Ray: And if the person does get upset, then it’s about trusting your empathy, and your instincts and your intuition to be able to respond effectively at that point.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah, that’s good advice.
Rebecca Ray: And then set consequences if the person continues to cross the boundary. Yeah. Which we should probably do another episode about if the person does continue to cross your boundary and doesn’t settle the invoices.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah.
Rebecca Ray: How do you feel now?
Nyssa Ray: I feel more empowered, I feel like more and more informed of, of what could possibly come out of the conversation.
Nyssa Ray: And I feel like whether it is a Yes, I’ll pay those invoices as soon as I can, or no, I’m gonna have to stop recording with you altogether, because I just cannot afford the amount of invoices that I have racked up.
Nyssa Ray: There they are my two outcomes from them. And I guess I’ve done everything I can now I’m not the one sabotaging that conversation and those decisions in the project. So it won’t, it won’t fall on me.
Nyssa Ray: So if the project doesn’t, if the album doesn’t get released, it’s not because I didn’t do everything that I was capable of, to bring them to fruition.
Nyssa Ray: That makes sense.
Rebecca Ray: Absolutely. Yeah. This is what it’s like in a service based business. You can only do what you’re able to do within the limitations of what the client brings to you.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah. Yep.
Rebecca Ray: And that means making it clear from the outset, what that process is going to look like in terms of when you arrive in nice array studios.
Rebecca Ray: What happens? What do you do? How does your project unfold? And as you get clearer about this, you’re going to be able to communicate this those boundaries from the very beginning.
Rebecca Ray: Yeah. So that you don’t stumble on those blocks over and over again. Yeah, I do want to have a conversation with you in another episode about dirty money, because I think it’s important for us to talk about that money book.
Rebecca Ray: And I think it’s a really common one that comes up. But right now, I just want to say thanks for being so vulnerable.
Rebecca Ray: I know that I kind of dumped this on you and said, Can we have that conversation and record it because I think it’s really valuable. And so many people will be able to relate to it.
Rebecca Ray: But I know that it’s not necessarily easy. You’ve just shown up and you’ve been transparent and honest and vulnerable.
Rebecca Ray: And that is a really powerful thing to be able to help other people feel acknowledged in their same fears and the same blocks, so Okay, thank you for doing that.
Nyssa Ray: You’re very welcome.
Rebecca Ray: Because I don’t think it’s the easiest thing to do.
Nyssa Ray: No, but it’s helpful. Good. It’s helpful to me as well.
Rebecca Ray: Good. Oh.
Nyssa Ray: Another thing like when you’re in business, you, you don’t have all the answers. It’s okay. But that is a stigma.
Rebecca Ray: That’s right.
Nyssa Ray: You know, you’re the one being paid for the job. You’re, you’re the one being paid for the service. So therefore, you must have all the answers. Yes. It’s not always the case.
Rebecca Ray: That’s right.
Nyssa Ray: Um, and the more vulnerable anybody can be with themselves. I think you just learn more from yourself.
Rebecca Ray: I think we’ll end on that. Because that’s brilliant and more vulnerable. You can be with yourself, then the more you learn about yourself.
Rebecca Ray: And Yep, this is, I think, if we were going to sum up this conversation would be about self knowledge and boundaries, and how you apply yourself knowledge through boundaries, to be able to be as empowered as possible in business.
Nyssa Ray: Yeah, thanks for your time.
Rebecca Ray: And if people are interested in Nyssa Ray recordings, where can they find you?
Nyssa Ray: You can find me at Nyssaray.com on Instagram, Nyssa_Ray on Facebook Nyssa Ray music and that’s, that’s where I’ll be
Rebecca Ray: In case Nyssa is difficult. It’s ny s s a yeah in the shownotes. When Yes, we’re gonna pop all the links in the show notes.
Nyssa Ray: Thank you nice, lovely ones.
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