Show Notes:

The episode that you’re about to tune into is with a participant of my flagship program Intentional Business, the experience for women entrepreneurs. This episode will give you a feel for exactly what Intentional Business mentoring sounds like, feels like, what it’s like to experience this transformation firsthand. And if it sounds like you, I’d love to see you in round two of Intentional Business.

And if it sounds like you, I’d love to see you in round two of Intentional Business. Just go to, I’d love to see you in the program.

Rebecca: Lovely ones I am so excited to have Hayley D Quinn here with me today. She is one of the participants in the first round of intentional business and I’m so excited for you to meet her. Hayley is doing some amazing things in the world. And she’s also a clinical psychologist. So I have a particular connection to her.

Rebecca: I want to tell you about Hayley because there are some things that I think it’s important to understand that people do when you wouldn’t expect them to do and that’s Hayley to a tee she has done the most remarkable things in her life, under circumstances that you wouldn’t necessarily expect someone to be able to do those remarkable things.

Rebecca: Let me explain. Dr. Halyey D Quinn is a clinical psychologist, supervisor, trainer and owner of the compassionate well being centre. Hayley is past president of compassionate mind Australia, and she is originally from the UK and has gratefully called Australia home since 1995.

Rebecca: When she’s not seeing clients working with supervisees are exploring topics around compassion and well being you’ll find her hanging out with her husband and forever puppy, either in town or at the coast. She is mom to a gorgeous adult son, and would you believe spent 13 years as a single Mum, during which time she completed her Bachelor of psychology, honours and clinical PhD.

Rebecca: This is who you’re about to meet someone who’s capable of such phenomenal output. But because of that she truly understands the need to balance out self care, and other care while studying working and living life.

Rebecca: Hayley runs a weekly online group for therapists focusing on connection, reflection, compassion and self care. She believes that supporting therapists and allied health professionals to incorporate compassion, sorry to incorporate Bob, can you just fix that for me to incorporate compassion practices into their life and work can increase capacity for caring courage and wisdom for both practitioners and clients and enable the development or maintenance of sustainable and enjoyable practice? Now, for those of you that have been here for a while, you might realise the fact that I probably needed Hayley A number of years ago.

Rebecca: Hayley, is the antidote to the burnout, but I experienced. Welcome Hayley, thank you so much for being on the show.

Hayley: Hi, Beck. Thanks for having me.

Rebecca: So I know we’ve joked about this before you do your level best in work to help practitioners not burn out. And we met long after my burnout when I’m no longer practising, so I kind of needed you way back in maybe I probably needed you 10 years ago, not even five years ago.

Rebecca: So I’m so glad that you’re doing this work in the world because I think it’s highly needed. And you and I have spoken beside behind the scenes a number of times now, about psychologists and how self care and burnout prevention is not really a part of our training. So I just wondered if you could take a moment to explain to listeners, what’s behind the work that you do. Why is it so meaningful for you?

Hayley: Well, I think you might have needed me back then. And I certainly needed me back then as well. Just listening to you read out about the things I was doing. When I was a single Mum, it’s hardly surprising that I was tired at the end of it. And I developed chronic illness.

Hayley: And it got to a point where I recognise that I wasn’t going to be able to do maintain that sort of level of work that I was doing, and had to really start focusing on taking care of myself, more than I had been, I had been quite mindful of self care throughout that process.

Hayley: So I was available to take care of my son. But I knew I needed to kind of step it up. And I was introduced to compassion, and then compassion, focus therapy. And I don’t say it lightly, but it literally changed my life.

Hayley: And when I started bringing to the compassion practices, and understanding my motivation for things better, it really made me change how I operated in my own business, and in my general life as well.

Hayley: The more I sort of spoke to other therapists, I’d see people at training, I’d chat with therapists and supervise people, I just kept hearing the same sort of thing.

Hayley: And the same sort of narrative that as psychologists, we always have to be available to other people and lots of other things that come up with people’s own beliefs. And it’s just become a real passion of mine to sort of change the way that the industry operates.

Hayley: For psychologists, and I think for the broader allied health, professional field as well. So I guess that’s kind of what got me started. It was it was sort of forced upon me by my own my own unwellness, I suppose, and needing to really introduce practices. And then when I realised how helpful it was, I was like, hey, well, if it’s helpful for me, then hopefully it could be helpful for other people as well.

Rebecca: Isn’t that the way that we so often find out? find our way to certain things is out of sheer necessity for ourselves? Yeah. With the chronic illness? So are you saying that that came about because of how depleted you were during that time that you were a single parent and doing your studies? Do you think those two things are linked? Or are you saying it just happened to occur at the same time,

Hayley: I think that was an ongoing process, probably, from many things that I’ve experienced through my life, certainly exacerbated by the fact that, you know, sometimes I was working three jobs, and studying and looking after my boy and trying to have a social life as well, and adding traces and driving a thesis and doing all the things. And in the end, it just kind of got the better of me because I wasn’t listening.

Hayley: Yeah, you know, I just keep pushing on, I need to keep going, I need to keep going, I need to do this stuff. And I wasn’t listening to the wisdom that was showing up. So when I started to do that, I actually had some really good progress in my health. And thankfully, today is is much better managed.

Rebecca: Yeah. This is the other reason why I think you’re so phenomenal. So Hayley’s doing intentional business, the first round of my flagship programme, and she has just knocked it out of the park.

Rebecca: So Hayley’s just arrived in an intentional business with some ideas about how she might like to grow her business and grow herself. And I would say that there’s, it’s rare for a day to go by when I don’t see a message from you in the group that talks about some action that you’ve taken.

Rebecca: And when you’re doing all this on the background of still running a clinical practice, as well as holding space for however many sort of supervisees you’ve got on the books at the moment, as well as thinking about where you want your business in life to go. And just think it’s phenomenal. I’m so proud of you already. And I think what you’re creating is something that is truly going to make a difference to the people that need you.

Rebecca: And I say that as someone who needed you, and someone who probably very deeply needed your voice rather than my own voice. Because as you know, when you’re in it, the reason we don’t listen is because sometimes all we’ve got left with those resources is to continue the doing, because if there’s no one else to do it, there’s no one else to do it, then it’s really hard to listen to a different intuitive voice that might say, you know, maybe you should slow down or do a little bit less.

Rebecca: And I can’t imagine how many practitioners that are out there, either allied health or psychologists themselves, who are in the positions that we’re in. Yeah. You managed to get yourself to a point where you’re not burnt out.

Hayley: And when I’m listening to you say that, like, oh, wow, it sounds like she’s just non stop really busy. But I do it in such a different way now, and some of I guess some of the reason I could move so quickly with some of that stuff is it’s kind of been simmering, yeah.

Hayley: They haven’t kind of come with and had this immediate new idea and then gone from sort of zero to, to where I’m at. They’ve been simmering, but I’ve not had anywhere really where I can throw the ideas around or kind of have that group of other like minded women around me, that can help me propel that.

Hayley:  I still take a lot of time for myself, like, I’m certainly not working all day on these things yet that I dip in and out of them. But they’ve been able to progress well, because I really feel like there’s people at my back as well, kind of helping me along with that. And that that sort of sense of dropping a comment in the group.

Hayley: And then you get feedback from yourself or some of the other group members. And it’s like, oh, yeah, I’m gonna go do that next. And it kind of builds that momentum and that excitement. Yeah, so it’s a different energy as well. It’s a different field. And that’s like, oh, I’ve got to do this thing. So it’s ready. It doesn’t feel like that it’s actually quite joyous.

Rebecca: Yeah. I love that Intentional Business has been that for you, because that’s exactly what I wanted to create with the program is somewhere that you can go with the ideas that you’ve got, but have a support system and sense of encouragement and inspiration to be able to take those steps because sometimes the difference between the simmering ideas and those ideas becoming your reality is having a vehicle to make them happen. And that vehicle is sometimes intangible.

Rebecca: So it’s literally just community and having that sense of community. And sometimes it’s far more practical, like the discussions where we’ve had actual practical discussions around how you set up a podcast, you know what kind of microphone you might use all the other tech tips that we talked about to actually transform your business to what you want it to look like.

Rebecca: And this is what I want these episodes of this series of episodes. This is one of four intentional business mentoring episodes that are coming out in May. And as part of these episodes, what I wanted to show listeners is exactly what intentional business mentoring looks and feels like maybe not looks, sounds and feels like if you’re listening.

Rebecca: And so one of the things we do most in intentional business is talking about mindset and talking about the struggles that come up over and over again and threatened to emotionally paralyse you, which then in turn paralyses you practically from taking the action you need to take.

Rebecca: And the reason we talk so much about mindset is that business is a very small percentage of the strategies, systems and marketing techniques that you need to be successful. And a very large part, the mindset that you need to be able to make those things happen. So we’re gonna do that out loud. And we’re going to do that based on whatever struggles you’re having at the moment that you want to talk about. Hayley, what are they?

Hayley: So I think there’s a couple of things for me, one of them is this sense of having to be visible. You know, putting yourself out there on social media, different things like that. So that brings up some discomfort.

Rebecca: You mean to invest in video, or just in general, having like a social media profile?

Hayley: Probably more sort of video and things like that. I don’t mind putting my pretty Instagram camera, and I love doing those. I don’t mind doing that.


Hayley: That is part of me because that’s obviously my thoughts and feelings are words that go out there. But it’s not me.

Hayley: It’s not like a picture of me or a video of me talking. So that’s tricky. And then the other one, which might sound weird, is actually a fear of success. Now, that kind of brings with it. We’ve talked about the fact that I’ve got chronic illness. What if I am successful in what I’m doing, and my health can’t keep up? What would that then mean?

Hayley: What if I’m successful, and that has an impact on the relationships that I have in my life? So I think those are the two, allowing myself to be visible. Don’t want to just stop because now I know, so allow myself to be visible. 

Rebecca: I feel like the fear of success relates to visibility as well. So these two things aren’t necessarily separate. Because to be successful, you probably have to be visible in the first place. Yeah, and if you’re successful, then it probably requires you to be even more visible than what you currently are sorry, okay.

Hayley: You’re not helping Beck [laughter]

Rebecca: The levels of faders rose in the room. But the link between those two is kind of what’s showing up for me, I just think Yeah, okay, I can see how those things related. When we talk about visibility.

Rebecca: We can talk about on the surface, but I’d be bored if we did that. So let’s just dive a little bit deeper if that’s okay. Are you able to identify what the fees are around being visible. Like what’s so bad if a picture of you went up on Instagram?

Hayley: I’m not, I’m not 100% sure on that one. And that’s why I think I come back to it quite a bit because I do post the picture. So I’m not 100% sure what it is.

Rebecca: So your breathing has just changed. listeners, you can’t see us. But I, Hayley and I are on video. Your breathing is just changing, your shoulders tensed? So I’m wondering what is it if we could dive down a little bit? And just think, if we could give that fear of voice, when you think about being visible when you think about putting up a photo or video? What does the fee want to say around that?

Hayley: I think what’s coming up is a fear of attack. And some sort of earlier, I had some bullying experiences when I was a child. And I think that is probably sitting under a lot of this. And just some other experiences through my life that have been challenging in terms of that,  So I think it’s this sense of people not being nice and coming under attack.

Rebecca: Being attacked, is that also perhaps related to being judged? Are you frightened of being judged as well at all?

Hayley: I can’t see how I couldn’t be, being human.

Rebecca: Okay.

Hayley: We actually add to that, yes. I think just inherently in us we have this fear of, you know, not being accepted or being judged badly. Yeah. That whole loan monkeys a dead monkey thing? Yeah.

Hayley: So yeah, I think that sort of sense of that judgement. But actually, if people were to judge me quietly in their own lounge rooms, well, that’s fine. They can go ahead and do that. That’s their absolute right. But I don’t want them coming at me with it. I think that’s probably what it is.

Rebecca: And if we think about that actually happening. A Do you have any evidence? So Has that ever happened to you? Or be Has it ever happened to someone that you know or follow? That’s reinforced the fear that you could potentially be attacked?

Hayley: Yeah, look, I think I’ve got some experiences in my own life, for that sort of thing

Hayley: not social media.

Rebecca: So that’s what I mean on social okay. Has anyone ever trolled you or made a negative comment on what you’ve posted?

Hayley: I get quite lovely comments from people,

Rebecca: Which is the territory of self compassion. People before they comment.

Hayley: But I certainly know of other people who have experienced that. I think there’s a bit of a joke out there isn’t that you know, you’ve, you’ve made it once you start getting trolled. It’s not very nice, but

Rebecca: Made it once you start getting trolled. And once you get asked for your first refund, and a whole series of other business bingo things we could play.

Hayley: Yeah. So there’s certainly evidence that I think that’s the nature of human beings, you know, think that sort of rational part of me realises that the more visible you become in life, then of course, you’re going to have people that don’t like what you say, or keyboard warriors that want to make comment. And I guess there’s really nothing I can do about that. Well, there it is. I could stay very invisible. But that’s not how I want to live my life. Yeah.

Rebecca: There’s two things here. I want to say to it from another psychologists perspective on social media. I have been trolled, but happens very rarely. And usually in circumstances which enable me very clearly to place the issue with the person making the complaint or comment.

Rebecca: Everything from like being accused of plagiarising brene Brown to being stalked by someone who wasn’t wasn’t happy with what was happening in one of my free offers a whole series of things that are tiny but have happened over years but so irregularly that you would think it would be nothing but it’s not because I’m also human.

Rebecca: And so those things kind of register is quite big things. And against all the compliments I’ve received, you know, I remember the negative stuff but not so much the compliments which is why I have a compliments folder.

Rebecca: We’ve talked about this, if any of you here have words of affirmation is one of your love languages, words of affirmation is my second love language, I actually keep a folder in my emails of all nice things that people say to me. And I go back and read them if I need a little pep talk.

Rebecca: And I highly recommend it as a strategy. If you find that sometimes you focus a little too much on the negative stuff that happens in business. The other thing that I want to say around visibility, is that visibility is largely on your terms. And I’m a big fan of choosing the type of media, the type of content that makes you feel most comfortable to put out there, rather than being driven by what the algorithm is currently prioritising, you know.

Rebecca: So Instagram might prioritise reels like these stupid Tick Tok things, or the like, tick tock, if that’s not your thing, don’t do it. Like, I really don’t see any kind of benefit from creating content in a way that is kind of going against the grain for what’s true for you. But at the same time, connecting with why the visibility is meaningful, can also help you to be able to get out of your own way to do it.

Rebecca: And by that, I mean, thinking about your avatar, your ideal client, your ideal customer, depending on what it is that you’re looking for, whether you’re looking for more clients, or supervisees, or whether you’re looking for more people to purchase the next programme that you design.

Rebecca: When you’re thinking about that one person that you write to that one person that you create for because you’ve got the solutions that that person needs, then it can also be easier to be visible, because you’re speaking directly to them. When I say that, I really need to clarify easier, not easy.

Rebecca: So it may never be easy. I don’t love video myself, I do it because it’s part of my content. And I also do it because I know when people see my face, they feel like they know me more. And they’re more likely to feel like they get a sense of my authenticity.

Rebecca: I mean, I can write authentically as well. But there’s something about seeing someone’s face in their tone. And I think that comes across with you as well. There’s something about your voice. You know, you’ve done those meditations that have been so well received.

Rebecca: When you connect with what is my visibility offering my people, and sometimes it can build that bridge between the fear and then actually getting it done for the purposes of what it will bring you.

Hayley: Yeah, it’s interesting it as you’re talking about this, you know, you’re on social media. And of course, people that know you and the friends and colleagues kind of follow you and comment.

Hayley: I think I can get a bit stuck in the thing that actually the only people following me are people that know me. And of course that’s not true. Because if I look, there’s actually people I don’t know. And then I don’t think I need to do that. Because all they know me. But of course, there’s lots of people that don’t know me so but that that was just really interesting, man as you were talking. It’s like, Ah, yeah, I need to know who I

Rebecca: They do. And the thing. And I often forget this too, just from having been on social media for so long, I forget that people might have started following me last week. So they have no idea about my story. They have no idea about how I’ve come to be and who I am to serve them.

Rebecca: And it’s going to be the same for you, perhaps on a grander scale, because as you build from a small following to a larger following them, what you’re offering them is more of you, rather than just offering this introduction first. And then 12 months later, you know, you’ve perhaps teknicks your followers and 90% of them have no idea who you are other than you post pretty quotes.

Hayley: Yeah. That’s a good one to remember. Actually.

Rebecca: The other thing to remember as well in terms of content creation is reminding people how you can serve them how they can work with you. Again, this is one of the things that my assistant regularly has hassles me for is I forget to do this as well.

Rebecca: Sometimes we just think that people will take those next steps to explore a website, or check out your links on Instagram or find a way to contact you further, you know, perhaps send you a DM or whatever it is.

Rebecca: But people don’t have time. They scroll they see great quote and think Hayley looks amazing. And then all of a sudden they’ve got to go and jump in the car and take their toddler to preschool or pick up the kids or go to a meeting at work and they they don’t they forget until the next time they see something from you.

Rebecca: They don’t necessarily have the time to go and eat flaw. So if you can make that really easy for them, in every, you know, at least once a week popping up a post where you explain how people can work with you further, you’re actually really helping them with information that they otherwise have to go and find.

Rebecca: So sometimes the visibility is really tied up to the discomfort of self promotion. And that does not go down well, in our Western culture, particularly not here in Australia. And I would imagine that rates are the same, correct me if I’m wrong, but my English friends would probably agree that we don’t self promote very well.

Hayley: And then some, if you fish My goodness, after and channel, my British, yes. That side of you? How many No, don’t Don’t, don’t be promoting yourself.

Rebecca: Don’t show up. Don’t Don’t put yourself out there like that, you know, because you’ll quickly be knocked down. And yet, The unfortunate thing about social media for for our lot, is that if you don’t do that, the people that do do that are going to get the customers, they’re going to get your customers, because your customers don’t know that they’re your customers, because they’re just consuming content.

Rebecca: So you’re putting up pretty quotes that make them feel good, and they just keep scrolling. And that’s all they expect from you. They don’t know that there’s so much more richness available in terms of materials that you’ve created to help them and content that provide them with solutions that you have. Because you’ve not told them about it.

Hayley: Yeah, yeah, good point. And I think it’s that that sort of earlier messaging, I can remember that we probably a lot of people have those sort of early school what applies of sort of being asked, you know, who do you think you are?

Hayley:  That’s that stayed with me, I turned 51 this year, and I’m like, wow, it’s been a long time since I was at school. Yeah, but I have this, who do you think you are? And I think sometimes when I go to, to put some content out into the world, there is a little part of me that’s like, should you be doing this?

Hayley: Who do you think you are? And I’m much, much better now at, you know, offering myself compassion and being able to serve, and still put the stuff out there. Because I know that it’s what I want to do. And I know that it is helpful information. But it’s there. And you know, this stuff. Just because I’m a psychologist, I’m not immune to it.

Rebecca: I just think that’s such an important thing to say, for any listeners that are nodding along right now who have ever experienced imposter syndrome and thought that the answer was a bachelor’s degree or a PhD or any formal qualification in anything that you’re thinking of training, thinking of training, or perhaps know a bit about and want to create your own content in but think that you can’t, because you’re not formally qualified, I can guarantee you that it doesn’t matter how many letters you have, after your name, or before your name, as the case may be, that will stop imposter syndrome, it doesn’t go away.

Rebecca: This kind of fear of being seen to be a fraud, or being evaluated as not being good enough or not knowing enough doesn’t go away, the more you’ve studied, I think the way we respond to it changes based on just doing the thing over and over again and putting yourself out there and creating the dream business that it is that you’re visualising rather than getting paralysed by it.

Rebecca: Because, like we’ve talked about judgement is just a function of being human. But so is this need to belong. And that’s when imposter syndrome speaks to is what happens if I’m torn down or rejected in some way, because apparently I’m not good enough. The other thing, that visibility won’t just talking about visibility, something that came up for me was sometimes around this topic.

Rebecca: People also have a sense of not Who do you think you are, but there’s no room for me, this is already being done. So and So already made a programme on that, or I follow this person, and they already put a journal out on that. I wonder if you’ve experienced anything like that, Hayley?

Hayley: I think previously, but I think I’ve mentioned this in group. I had listened to some training at some point. And the person had said, if you ever feel like there’s not room for your products, go down the bread aisle.

Hayley: I mean, it’s just brilliant because there’s so many different types of bread. And I’m not necessarily going to like the same bread that you like back. And it’s the same for our content. There’s there’s different people putting content out into the world, and who has really helpful information, but we’re not all a good fit for each other. Exactly. So I actually I’m okay with that.

Hayley: I think if somebody is doing the same thing as me, they’re not doing it. The same. Why is me? So they’re not you? Because they’re not me. Absolutely. So that one I don’t tend to struggle with, but I could certainly see how people would. Yep.

Rebecca: And I’m so glad you brought that up, though, because I forgot you mentioned that quote in the group. And I love that quote so much about the bread aisle. It’s just so true. I’m sure there’s going to be listeners sitting there going, Oh, my goodness. I just answered all my fears around.

Rebecca: Okay. Do you feel like we need to explore visibility anymore? Are you happy to move on to fear of success?

Hayley: Yeah. Yeah. Well, now I don’t feel like we need to explore this anymore. And I guess I’m happy to move on to success. I got it.

Rebecca: I thought you were saying, oh, my goodness, fear of success is making me feel fearful. And I don’t want to talk about it. That would be understandable. fear of success?

Rebecca: Can we talk about the tentacles of that within you? Is that just around? whether or not your health can be sustained? Or is it around other things as well?

Hayley: No, I think there’s other things, I think there’s the impact on relationships. I like so I make sure I have plenty of time in my life now so that I can rest and take care of my health. And also take care of my relationships, whether that’s with my husband, or my son or friends.

Hayley: So there’s that as well. Because obviously, the more I do, you get busier. I mean, there’s no, there’s no way around. You can’t put more work out into the world without doing more work.

Hayley: I haven’t learned magic. You know how much I like magic, but I haven’t learned magic yet. Yeah, so it’s good. optimist. I’m just really hopeful one day, I could have some magic powers, but probably not.

Rebecca: I do like to believe there’s a Hogwarts hiding in the English countryside somewhere that we just don’t know about yet.

Hayley: It would be very nice. Yeah, we’d like to gather. So, you know, I realised that if I’m going to change the way I’m doing my business, and start producing content, start working more with supervisees, which I absolutely love.

Hayley: Start creating more content that can be helpful for a wider audience that can’t perhaps work with me one on one, then I am going to have times where I have to be working on that. And there is part of me that’s like, oh, but what about the time that I have with my friends and family? And then also the impact that could have on my health?

Rebecca: Can we talk about your expectations around buisiness? What do you think is going to happen? Like how busy do you think you’re going to be when you’re successful? Can you quantify that at all?

Hayley: I think some of that is that uncertainty? I don’t know. I don’t know, I I know that I make choices every day of whether I want to engage in something, or whether I need to rest that’s become part of my everyday life with chronic illness.

Hayley: But when I think about and you know, talks about this, I have so many ideas, and I want to do all the things. And I know I can’t do all the things well, I can’t do all the things all at the same time. So I really don’t know what this is going to look like. And I guess as humans, you know that uncertainty or doubt that that’s what brings that fix? I don’t know what it’s going to look like.

Rebecca: I was going to answer that with ours. But I don’t think that’s the answer I want to give you, I think the answer I want to give you is you get to be as busy as you want to be. It depends on how you style your business.

Rebecca: So if you style your business, to the point where the roles in your business that you’re playing that you don’t want to play, because then they don’t meet your zone of genius. If you start out your business so that there is people sitting in those roles, or one person sitting in multiple roles, depending on what skills they bring to the picture, you can be as busy as you want to be you can have a business that is self sustained. So you could take time off if you wanted to.

Rebecca: You could take six months off if you wanted to. And you don’t have to be involved at all because it’s being done. It depends on the decisions you make around what the business is going to look like and what you’re willing to invest in systemising so that that can be created for you.

Hayley: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and brings up another fear of being human Is that that sort of thing of as you start to sort of bring on other people, and I’ve done that a little bit already, as you start to bring on other people to do things, then obviously that cost money. And then some sort of fears come up around, I don’t want to just be putting money out, I want to, I want to have a business that I enjoy and not go broke in the process.

Rebecca: So maybe there’s more money block around what it looks like to invest in getting your time back, as well as creating space for a kind of virtual business that makes money while you sleep. And I know that that can be quite a quite a leap, when you’ve been doing a service based business for a long period of time, that’s been very successful. So you’ve not advertised for a long period of time people just come to you, doctors just refer to you, it’s just what happens when you’ve got an established practice.

Rebecca: That’s in demand. And then when you think about creating products that enable you to access an audience on a far greater level than you can, one to one or small groups, then the possibilities, there are unlimited possibilities. There are literally just about how you can target the right people that need what you’ve got. And I think some of the uncertainty might be showing up for you around that, because you’ve just not done enough of it to see that it really does happen. You know, you can’t trust it, because you’re not seeing your programme cell while you’re sleeping.

Hayley: Yeah.

Rebecca: That’s not to say that there’s not a period, that’s feast or famine, perhaps not for you, because you’ve got your clinic. But certainly in my experience, I’m always totally transparent about this, I left my clinic with zero income, I walked away because I had to my burn out made the decision for me, I had no say in the process if I wanted to stay alive spiritually, psychologically.

Rebecca: And so I walked away. And what I set out for myself because of that was this pressure to create something that made money very quickly. And there’s, there’s a problem in that as well. Because the pressure when you put money making pressure on a product, or an offer, then it takes away the joyousness and the lightness of being able to kind of CO create with the universe and then co create with your audience as you improve your offers, and create other flow on offers from those things.

Rebecca: I robbed myself of a period of testing that I think could have really been helpful. But having said that, we’re still here, nothing, things haven’t totally fallen apart, what happens is when you create the space to just create the offers in the time that you have available when you’re feeling well.

Rebecca: And in the time that you have available, when you’ve got the energy and the space to be able to do so you’re creating assets that can be sold again and again and again, that need nothing from you. So once you set up what we call an evergreen funnel, which is a funnel that’s alive 100% of the time, it doesn’t rely on a launch period that opens the cat for three days, seven days, and then closes it again.

Rebecca: So no one can access it. Then once that’s set up, it’s set and forget, like you like all you do is watch your stats to make sure that everything’s still working and nothing’s, you know, no tech Gremlins have gotten in there.

Hayley: And some of that I would like I would like some products that are there. But what I also know and I was talking to my husband about this, I know I want a business that I really enjoy being immersed in, that brings me joy and kind of lights me up. And one of the things I do really enjoy is that one on one interaction or group, it doesn’t have to just be one on one. And certainly with my supervision.

Hayley: I have a lot of flexibility in terms of a lot of its online people in to state and locally as well. But also to be able to sort of establish some workshops and retreats that are in person. And that will create like an environment and an atmosphere that is soothing and nourishing.

Hayley: And that stuff really excites me. But it also means that I have to be there and present and on and well. So I think it’s that sort of working out as I have to do anyway with my clinical work and went with In my clinical plant work is slowing down and this other stuff is sort of increasing is kind of managing.

Hayley: Like as I, as I have been doing, how do I take care of me. And I suppose one thing that comes bring always brings me back to that place is the work that I’m putting out there is how to therapists take care of themselves.

Hayley: So I just keep listening to what I’m saying. I’m a big believer in being authentic. And I have to keep, you know, really listening when I’m speaking and paying attention when I’m reading what I’m putting out there, because it’s the informations in there for me to absolutely, yeah.

Rebecca: So again, this is not an answer. But more an observation that what you want to do is completely doable, what you’re talking about is multiple offerings, or multiple products, that don’t all have to rebuild in a day and give you different streams of income, which also account for the times when you’re not feeling well. And being able to commit to a date for a workshop might actually feel very different.

Rebecca: Once that dates in place. And you’re excited about the group they’re like, I think if you think about how many times you’re on well to run a supervision group. And I’m assuming that’s not every second week, so your group’s not being rescheduled every second week, because you’re not because you’re unwell, then this is about perhaps a place of self trust, and being able to create with your body and being you’re giving your body credit for everything that it’s done for you.

Rebecca: And every time it shows up, because you have to because there’s a date in the diary that says, Hayley, you’re on today. Because some of this, it sounds to me like what you’re actually missing is the evidence that your body’s already doing it, your body’s already showing up for you, and you’re doing so much to look after it. But nothing’s guaranteed.

Rebecca: I mean, nothing in life is guaranteed other than death, and taxes as they say. But you are in a place where you’re doing absolutely everything you can to be able to show up on a particular day in a particular time if you’re running a retreat, or if you’re running a particular large group or something like that. And we talk about fear of success.

Rebecca: We’re talking about, I think, for you, but what does success look like? actually think the question behind the fear is, I don’t know what success looks like, and therefore I can’t trust it. And I don’t know if I’m enough or I have enough to throw at it. And what I want to say that is success looks like what you want it to look like you have full control here to create a business based on what you want it to look like, not what other people do.

Rebecca: I don’t live launch very often because I find that fucking exhausting. I’m an introvert. I don’t like having to do videos all the time. I don’t like having to show up for challenges and all the things I love about while I’m doing it because I kind of what inspires me is the connection.

Rebecca: Like you know, once I sit with people, and were dealing with the psychological concepts that have just turned me on, like psychology, I still love psychology so much. And being able to practice it in this way that doesn’t require me to do clinical practice is so valuable. But that doesn’t mean that there’s not aspects to business that don’t exhaust me.

Rebecca: And so I choose not to do them very often. And when I do do them, I do them very intentionally. So live launching usually brings in greater profit. And then that’s the benefit that I’m looking for. Because I’ve consciously chosen to live longer because the products not available very often.

Rebecca: And then there’s other times where I might be writing a book where I do nothing, I literally stopped posting on social media, I stopped sending newsletters because my brain has nothing else other than writing that book. You have the choice to define what this business is going to look like. I I’m getting the suggestion that you need to perhaps spend some time with that vision.

Hayley: I like that self trust I do need to come back to that. I think the I think at my worst with my health was so so awful. That there is part of me that’s like I just don’t ever want to go back so awful. But also I never have got back to there.

Hayley: Because I know so much more about taking care of myself. And I think that that’s a really big one and I need to just keep reminding myself of this self trust because I do know how to take care of my body and She takes care of me very well, too. And yeah, I mean, absolutely, like, you know, said I turned 51.

Hayley: I think one of the benefits of getting older is you do get to this place where it’s like, if you don’t want to do it, probably not going to, yeah, I haven’t. If I want my business to look particular way, then that’s, that’s why I work for myself as well. So they’re really good points Not at all. keep reminding myself,

Rebecca: yeah, spend time with the vision, and try to ride out your vision from a place of self trust. So if you were completely trusting your body and your mind to do what they need to do, what would your business look like in two years from now? You don’t have to answer that right now.

Rebecca: Probably going to take some time to answer but that I think that would be you know, when your next walk, I want you to really stop and spend some time entertaining that idea. And then write it down.

Rebecca: You know, the miracle day exercise. If you if the problem was solved, and you woke up tomorrow morning, and the problems, no longer there, what would your perfect day look like? Yeah,

Hayley: I call that the magic wand. Okay, so yes.

Rebecca: Same thing, magic wand, but applying that to your business vision? Yeah. So if you Sorry, listeners, we just quickly glossed over a technique. It’s essentially to imagine that if you had a magic wand, and the problem that you’re facing right now was solved, whether it be money, or time or energy, or whatever it is, that you’re, that’s showing up for you that’s stopping you from doing the thing that you want to do.

Rebecca: If you woke up tomorrow morning, and that problem was solved, what would it look like? What would your perfect day look like? And the purpose of this exercise to help is to help you to see possibilities that you otherwise don’t see, when the problem is sitting there. blinding your perspective.

Rebecca: So that’s what I’m thinking, Hayley, in terms of fear of success, we answer that, by taking a little bit of control back into your hands, you have control over what success looks like, and making it on your terms. And then co creating to be able to and I mean, co creating in the spiritual sense as in, you don’t have to do this all alone.

Rebecca: There is I’m a big believer that there is something else that helps us when it needs to, that’s the only reason I’ve gotten my books written is because every time I sit down, I think shit, what am I going to write and something happens so that the words end up on the page. It’s not always fun, but eventually we get there. And it will be the same for your programs and your offerings.

Hayley: Yeah, good. I’ll sit down and spend some time on that.

Rebecca: And so as you entertain this, these kind of answers, I guess, or just this discussion at large, what feelings you’re experiencing now, on the other side of talking about visibility and fear of success?

Hayley: The biggest feeling that I have right now is excitement. I love it. 

Rebecca: What are you taking away from this chat?

Hayley: Some of the things that really stand out to me are that some people who follow me don’t have a clue who I am. So I need to be more visible, and introduce myself to them.

Hayley: I need to let people know how they can contact me. And I’ve started doing that a little bit more with my supervision posts and stuff. And people have been able to reach out which has been great. And I think come back to self, which is a big part of the work that I do with people is so I need to listen to myself.

Rebecca: Come back to that self trust. And just be really mindful. I think the experience of bullying I had when I was younger, really does kind of step up in this quite a bit. And I just need to take care of that part of me and let her know that. I’ve got her back. Yes. And it’s okay to keep going. And she’s not doing this alone.

Hayley: Yeah. And, you know, I’m really excited about this sort of stuff. So we’re trying to sort of step more in that and just honour that whatever feelings show up.

Rebecca: I love it so much, and I love you so much. How can our listeners find more of your brilliant self?

Hayley: Okay, well, I’m on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter. Those things under Dr.HayleyDQuinn I’m in the process of, I’ve never really needed a website, but I’m in the process of having one done. So that will end up being Or they can email me at [email protected]. Brilliant.

Rebecca: Thank you so much for your time today, Hayley, it’s always a pleasure to chat with you. Thank you for being so bravely vulnerable.

Rebecca: Lovely ones. I hope you enjoyed that episode as much as I did. If intentional business mentoring sounds like you if it sounds like exactly the thing that you need. I would love to see you in round two of my program intentional business, the experience for women entrepreneurs, you can sign up at

Rebecca: Lovely ones. Thank you so much for listening to Hello, Rebecca Ray. If you’ve got something meaningful from this episode, and the most meaningful thing you can do is jump on over to wherever you listen to your podcast episodes and leave a review. Because it’s those reviews that help this podcast stay here. Make sure to subscribe.

Rebecca: And if you’re generous enough to share this episode, thank you so much. I love seeing your shares on social media. So please tag me, catch you next time.