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Show Notes:

The practice of embodied presence is a powerful form of mindfulness. I discussed how we can bring this practice into our creativity and our everyday life with performer and embodied presence, Nilusha Dassenaike. The chat was so rich and valuable, I separated it into two episodes, the second half of which is to come next week!

Rebecca Ray: Welcome to Hello Rebecca Ray, our collective home for courage, growth and human to human connection. I’m your host, Dr. Rebecca Ray, human, clinical psychologist, author, and educator. I know only too well how fear, comparison and self doubt can stifle your potential. This podcast is all about brave and meaningful living and how you can make your authentic contribution to the world today and every day

Rebecca Ray: Lovely ones, welcome to episode number 56 of Hello Rebecca Ray. I’m incredibly excited to share my guest with you today Nilusha Dassenaike. We’re talking on embodied presence. She’s a Sri Lankan born Australian singer who weaves her South Asian musical and spiritual roots into her compositions. She has performed at Carnegie Hall, the Lincoln centre, the Apollo theatre, among many other prestigious concert halls around the world. Nilusha has performed for Oprah Winfrey, Michelle Obama, Harry Belafonte, Hillary Clinton, and performed with Hugh Jackman, Natalie Merchant, Amanda Palmer, Tina arena, and many more. Nico electro is her current musical collaboration with programmer and producer Colin Snape and their music is described as Buddha meets Blade Runner. This discussion turned out to be so incredibly rich and valuable that I’ve split it into two episodes. I hope you enjoy part one.

Rebecca Ray: Lovely ones I am so excited to share with you today a very special guest Nilusha Dassenaike, Nilusha is not only a stellar vocalist, but she’s also an expert in embodied presence. And the reason I am bringing her on today is because I actually wanted to have a conversation with her privately about embodied presence and about how that feeds her creative process. And then I thought to myself, hold on a second, you might like to share in this conversation with me. And so I’m lucky enough that she’s here with me today. And before I welcome her, just in case you want to stalk her because I promise you, you will. It’s Nilusha Dassenaike that’s N I L U S H A Dassenaike, D A S S E N A I K E. Now I’m spelling that for you. Because the first time I heard and Nilusha’s name said, I had no idea what was said. None whatsoever. I immediately wanted to stalk her because I saw her in concert and it was ridiculously good. So because I have no chill, of course, I went to Instagram and I wanted to track her down. And I actually didn’t know what my name was. So if you want to do the same thing, I’m making it easy for you right now. Thank you for being here with me Nilusha.

Nilusha Dassenaike: Thank you, my darling. It is my joy, my honour, my thrill to be here with you. That was a gorgeous introduction.

Rebecca Ray: It’s the truth. It’s the truth. We know I have no chill in Instagram, DMS. Now, you’re here today, specifically, not necessarily to talk about your stellar vocal performances, although we should do a separate episode where I just get you to sing. But to talk about embodied presence. And one of the things that I love so much about you that I have not been able to achieve in my own personal world yet, because we’re always evolving is the practice of bringing some kind of daily presence into my life. And I really want to, I really want to because I feel like the thing that’s missing from my personal evolution, as it stands right now is a daily practice where I spend time with me getting clear on my intention for the day getting clear on the values that I want to represent, and even connecting with a higher power, about the things that I’m hoping for the things that I’m trying to create and the wishes that I have for the world at large. And I see you do that every day. And I know that you teach this with satirising. And I know that you practice this on a daily basis. You do it so incredibly well, I know it’s it’s part of your being now you don’t need to think about it. It’s just part of who you are. And I am so not there. So can you please help?

Nilusha Dassenaike: Oh my god, I would love to help. The good news is I promise you, it’s the easiest thing you can do. Really, it’s one breath away. It’s one conscious breathe

Rebecca Ray: I love that you just like, bring it down to my level, I can do breath. I can do breath. But if we start talking about thoughts, you know, I have a mind that races and the mind that leaps, often way too far. And it’s really hard to come back and one of the things about, especially a formal meditation practice that I find really threatening is the fact that I need to simply sit and observe my thoughts. I can do that when I’m kind of involved in a task. So let’s say I’m writing, I was just writing an email before we started chatting to someone that, and  I really care about the outcome of that email and I noticed that my mind was saying, oh, my goodness, what happens if this email doesn’t get accepted in the way that I wanted to be accepted, and I can detach from my mind at that point. But if I’m not task involved, if it’s just simply sitting down as a daily practice, for some reason that seems indulgent. And also feels, I don’t know, just doesn’t seem like something that I I can allow myself to make time for. And so I’m wondering from you, firstly, what is embodied presence? What do we mean by that? And then, what does it look like daily for you? In, so that you’ve actually made it accessible and practical?

Nilusha Dassenaike: Can I just really quickly speak to the things that you were just describing, before we get into the the answer, like the specific question. What I appreciate is that you actually have a practice of mindfulness already. You’re just not calling it that.

Rebecca Ray: Okay.

Nilusha Dassenaike: You know, like, that concentration that you have, you’re able, when you’re writing your emails, you’re able to keep the worries the doubts at bay, you’re not necessarily trying to shut them out. And that’s the thing. That’s an essential part of mindfulness practice or meditation. We don’t try to stop anything. Yeah, we witness. And sometimes we need to bow down to it, because there is something internally that is calling us. Yeah. And if we give it our full attention, often, it could just be a thought that just wants your attention for a moment. Give it the attention. Ah, okay. Is that all you need? How else can I be there for you? Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Ray: Are you kind of talking to a wounded part of yourself? When you say things like that?

Nilusha Dassenaike: I think different parts of ourselves can pipe up at different moments at different points. Yeah. So whether it’s like, you know, oh, you haven’t done that thing yet. Or don’t forget to blah blah, blah, or whatever it is, you know, just like, the list of things and you’re not able to just come into the present moment. Or it can be that part of yourself. That is, oh, you don’t know how to do this? Or you can sometimes we can even use mindful practices against ourselves. Yeah, no, you’re not very good at this. This is a waste of time. The chat, the chatter. I think it’s very important not to suppress, ever, you know, we want to come into well, just just really quickly, getting back to what you were saying you’re, you have mastered this thing where you’re able to concentrate your mind, when you’re writing your emails, when you’re when you’ve got a very specific thing that you need to accomplish. And you’re not allowing kind of the external things or the distractions to come in like that is your mindfulness, you’re mindful of the thing that you must get done. Being mindful is being mindful of something. So your focus and your concentration is a way in and you’re already doing that.

Rebecca Ray: I can do it when I’ve got a task to do. But I can’t, can’t, won’t, have not, all of the above, have not done it as a daily formal practice where I’m just sitting with myself.

Nilusha Dassenaike: Yes. And I feel like I can show you a couple of different things because that can be incredibly overwhelming to just sit and what?

Rebecca Ray: But why? Why do we want to do it? Like I’m trying to think about hold on a second. What’s my purpose here? My purpose is it’s gone way beyond I think I should do it. So if we hadn’t been chatting back in my 20s, I might have been thinking, oh, apparently the thing to do is to sit and meditate, everyone else is doing it. So I have to do it too. And if I’m honest, my primary driver right now is, I just ask really big things of myself. So I have three books to write this year. And I, this might sound a bit woowoo. But one of the ways that I create is to imagine that I’m almost a vessel for messages to come through. So rather than taking the full responsibility to come up with the content of the book, I sit down at my desk and have a little chat with myself about whatever ideas are ready to come through me, I’m available to put those ideas onto the page so that the responsibility is not all mine. It’s also shared with the universe. And so there is part of me that has hopes for other things I want to create this year and beyond, and also for the person that I’m trying to become. And so my, my purpose here is to get in touch with an inner wisdom that I don’t feel like I’m accessing when I’m in my head, slash superficial self. Do you know what I mean?

Nilusha Dassenaike: 100% 100% And, you know, there are, I’ll share, I’ll share a few practices with you as well, that can just help you, I guess, sharpen that. Yeah, you know, and it’ll give you the ability to come into the present moment more easily and stay and stay present in your present moment. So, yes, we’ll come back to that. Yeah, we’ll come back to that. You asked about what embodied presence is? Yeah. And truly, I think it’s a little bit of a fancy way, or stylish way of saying, or just being at home. Being at home in the here, and now, being in your body. So often, our minds and our bodies are in completely different places. And it’s what you’re describing. Yeah. Yeah. So embodied presence is like this, this homecoming, it’s being present with yourself. So you can help yourself, show up for yourself as you travel through the difficulties, through the stresses, through the anxieties, and also be present for the beautiful things in life. Right? Yeah, seeing that the light in someone’s eyes or feeling the wind on your skin, or the miracles that are happening around you, all the time. Yeah, all the time. So that to me is what embodied presence is. It’s just as Thích Nhất Hạnh would say, I have arrived,m I am home, in the here, in the now.

Rebecca Ray: Even just you, the way you say it makes me feel so calm. I just need a little, I’ve got the answer, I need a pocket version of you that I can just pull out at any time. That’s the answer. I don’t need to do this myself. I don’t need to create it when I’ve got you. I just need to put you on repeat record. Can you just text me each day please?

Nilusha Dassenaike: Of course my darling.

Rebecca Ray: With some like gorgeous voice memo that brings me back into the present. Because actually you saying that line about the miracles that are happening around us every day. I, one of the things that keeps happening for me. it’s just so on-brand for me, I get so stuck in the logic and the rationality and the next steps, right? I’m, I can get very masculine about my next steps. What are the, what responsibility do I need to take to make my next goal happen? And so it’s all very not forced, but there’s a lot of push and drive behind it. Yeah. And I feel like what that does is it not only puts way too much pressure on my shoulders for all the things that are outside of our control in the world. But it also disconnects me from the magic. And I do believe in the magic in the world. There is a large part of me that has a heart for that. And I don’t feel like my relationship with the magic is being nurtured each day. But you do that and so and you do it by coming home into your body. And so I just want to be like you so can we make that happen? Thanks very much!

Nilusha Dassenaike: Absolutely! I’m waving, but in all honesty, darling, it’s, it isn’t even magic. It’s so practical and so simple, you know, and I find I understand the drive 100%. And what I have learnt to, I guess, let be a little is the attachment to the outcomes. You know, I, I like to think well, I like to create and set an intention or an aspiration from a place of goodness. Right. So, it’s kindness, goodness, it’s positive. It’s for the betterment not only for me, but for others, you know, yeah. And as long as I am creating, whether it’s a goal, or an aspiration, whatever it is, whatever it is, it’s an artistic thing, whatever, as long as I’m creating that, from that place of goodness, I can actually just let go and let be. And you know when you’re talking about the, the higher power I, you know, I just let the universe do its job. Really, you know, because if I think about, as soon as I start to worry, that’s when, you know, my hands are tight on that steering wheel.

Rebecca Ray: Yes, the grip, the white knuckled grip,

Nilusha Dassenaike: Right and is that allowing, firstly, I’m not allowing myself to enjoy any part of this process. Yeah. Secondly, I am totally attached to the way that this needs to look. Right, how this needs, that the trajectory, it’s going to be this. Yeah, it could be a million other wonderful opportunities that I’m not seeing, because I’m so tied to how I think it needs to be. Right. When I’m in the, I guess, in the throes of that worry, I have to remind myself of that thing. That, you know, I hear a lot of people saying, and there’s a very particular way of saying it like we’ve something along the lines of we’ve survived 100% of the traumas, and the difficulties and the stresses and the worries, 100% of them. Yeah, right. And I can kind of like go, yeah, I don’t even know how much of a hand I had in any of that really. Yeah. You know, so I can, I can trust and I can let go.

Rebecca Ray: Oh, trust and letting go is my lifelong lessons, especially trust. I’m very mistrustful of the universe. I’m not but the logical part of me is. I like to step in with force. I like to step in with control. The control freak in me goes, seriously, I need to have control here in order to achieve the outcome that I’m attached to. And as you talk through the stepping back from that outcome, it reminds me how much flow is allowed, rather than having to lead with this force.

Nilusha Dassenaike: Exactly. And then also, I have this embodied presence. I’m not worried about the future. I’m not there. I am here. And now.

Rebecca Ray: Oh that triggers my trust so much, because I’m always thinking about but if I don’t plan now for the future, then the future will be shit or it won’t work out the way I want it to. Alright, I have a question around I don’t even know whether this is a thing or whether I’ve made it off in my head. Okay, so let’s go with it.

Nilusha Dassenaike: Yes.

Rebecca Ray: But is embodied pre, your practice of embodied presence as stylish as that term might be? Is that the same as your spiritual practice? Are they one in the same thing? Or are they different?

Nilusha Dassenaike: Yeah, for me, yes. Okay, one in the same. Yeah. You know, I was thinking about that, like the what, what, you know, the spiritual practice is for me, and, you know, I really had to kind of, not dig deep, but just sort of really think about it. And I think in general, it’s just mindfulness in daily life. It’s bringing my attention fully, to whatever it is that I’m doing, whether it’s singing, arranging, exercising, cooking, washing dishes, drinking tea, like showing up for my cup of tea. That’s like such a huge thing.

Rebecca Ray: That sounds so profound when you say it like that. Actually being with the tea,

Nilusha Dassenaike: Being with the tea, the journey, that those leaves have been on. Yeah, to come here into my cup and greet my lips and amuse my mouth and bring me so much joy. So often I I’m away with or I’m doing something else while I’m drinking that you know what I mean? So yeah, that is such a spiritual practice for me. And I need to be, I need to be present I have to be present in my body in order to experience that. I, yes, yes, is the short answer to that.

Rebecca Ray: They’re the same thing.

Nilusha Dassenaike: They are the same thing.

Rebecca Ray: For listeners, if you’re wondering, when I start talking about spirituality, because that can be a trigger for some people for various reasons. And we start searching for definitions. And searching for some way some handle to hold on to, I just want to clarify that I probably sit somewhere in the middle of the continuum when it comes to spirituality. And I would probably describe myself as agnostic. I don’t believe in any formal higher power that has a particular name. But I do believe in some universal energy that’s much bigger than me. And every time I’ve taken a moment to connect with that energy, the process of whatever I’m trying to do is become easier. And as I become more and more aware of this, the conversations like this happen, because I want to go to people who are better at it than me, because I want to get better at it. It just seems to make my life easier, the more connected I am, and we both know that I’m not, I’m not as connected as I could be on a daily basis. Simply because I get so caught up in this drive, you know, the drive that my life is my responsibility, therefore, I need to make it happen.

Nilusha Dassenaike: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that.

Rebecca Ray: It’s a lot of pressure, right.

Nilusha Dassenaike: It’s a lot of pressure, it’s a tonne of pressure. And I completely get that, I completely, also, depending on what your history is, to, where you grew up, and all of those experiences can really lead you to, to have that very strong belief that it’s up to me, if I don’t do this, I’m not going to be supported, or I don’t have that, this is not going to go well for me or, yeah. And I think, I think the older I get, and the more, look I too, do not necessarily subscribe to any power outside of myself, you know, the universe, yes, all of that, but I don’t. I, this is this, and this is partly to do with my lineage, too. You know, we’re Theravada Buddhists. And we believe that all of us are the Buddha, you know, and that’s, it’s not like I need to go anywhere to get this enlightenment, it’s, it’s in me already, I just need to unlock it.

Rebecca Ray: I love the word unlock.

Nilusha Dassenaike: It’s just that the journey of coming home, it really is represented in that journey of coming back to oneself, coming back here.

Rebecca Ray: So if that process is, if it’s within you, and you’re simply unlocking a part of you, welcoming a part of you into the present moment that perhaps you didn’t have access to 30 seconds ago. When you do that, are you doing it as a formal practice at 8am in the morning? Actually, no, you’re running at 8am in the morning, but are you doing it as a formal practice at some time in the day for a certain number of minutes? Do you have a shrine set up? Are you lighting your candle? What does it look like?

Nilusha Dassenaike: Love these questions so much and I will say yes to it all. Okay. So I have various things, my so I have the so the spiritual practice, there’s learning that’s involved in that, right. So I read a lot. I listen a lot and research a lot. Okay, so there’s that aspect. And then there’s the application of that for me. And particularly with Buddhism, it’s about the, the Dharma is, that’s the wisdom of the teachings, is something that you apply in everyday life. It’s a very practical, it’s a very practical application. So I try to be mindful, honestly, while I’m washing dishes or while I’m washing my hair or pouring soap into this thing and just you know, sitting out in the courtyard or doing my work. So, you know, that is yeah, the very practical like outward expression, if you like, of, of this of my spiritual practice, whether it’s running or whatever, being fully present with it, and it also strengthens my concentration, therefore strengthening my mindfulness, my observation of myself all of that, and then I have very, I have specific practices, you know, that breathing techniques, mind meditations. And you know, whether that’s loving kindness practices or practices from the Anapanasati Sutta, which is basically it’s the Pali, Pali language. And that’s, it’s basically like a, like a sutta. Sutta is like a, it’s like a scripture if you like it’s like a discourse on mindfulness of breathing. So I practice that. And then I do other practices like just open awareness. So I’m, I’m checking in with my body, I’ll do a little bit of a body scan. And then I listen.

Rebecca Ray: Oh I love that exercise.

Nilusha Dassenaike: It’s beautiful. It’s really beautiful. So you, you know, because active listening, is actually to let, there are sounds in your environment that are announcing the present moment, all the time. And sometimes, we can be so shut off to noise, because we’re calling it noise. You know, I don’t like the sound of that person’s voice. Why is that thing so loud? The washing machines on. The traffic is too loud, whatever. All of these sounds are in our environment happening right now. There is such a beautiful way of connecting to the present moment. And you know, there, it’s not not there, actually, those sounds are doing their job. That’s what they’re supposed to be doing.

Rebecca Ray: Yes, so again, it’s stepping out of the struggle with the noise. And, and instead just observing the sound for what it is,

Nilusha Dassenaike: That’s it, without judgement.

Rebecca Ray: So are you doing these exercises like at a formal time during the day? Or are they associated with particular things or tasks that you have to do? Like, I’m assuming you do breathing exercises before you’re about to perform for example? Is there something that you do on a daily basis just to come back to you and are there others that are associated with your particular schedule?

Nilusha Dassenaike: Yeah, definitely. I also just want to tell you, I’ve got a little breathing space.

Rebecca Ray: Oh, what does it look like? What do you mean a breathing space.

Nilusha Dassenaike: So it’s like a little, it’s like a, I guess you could, it’s sort of like a shrine, but not really a shrine, okay. But it’s just a collection of things that I like, and I don’t have a big abode. It’s an apartment. So I’ve got plants, I’ve got a little statue, I’ve got, I also asked my partner, Colin to contribute to something, contribute to the space of it, so, when he walks past it, he feels connected to it. So it’s a little area of beauty and positivity, all these little things that make, that mean something to me. Yes, that’s where that’s like my little breathing space. So when I walk past it, when I, you know, I really see it, take a mindful breath in, take a mindful breath out, you know, and then I actually sit there and practice my Anapanasati sutta, the mindfulness of breathing. So that’s one thing I do. Another thing I do in the morning is I recite, sometimes I recite a little morning data. And that’s just you know, waking up this morning, this is all by taking that time, waking up this morning, 24 hour, beautiful hours to be for me, I vow to live each moment, mindfully or fully awakened with presence and to look at everyone with the eyes of compassion. So it’s just like a little start to the day. Most of my, nearly 100% of my days involve a run. So

Rebecca Ray: Nearly 100%. 99.9% depending on Melbourne weather.

Nilusha Dassenaike: So, you know, that’s very, the repetition is very much a, an exercise in mindfulness. It really brings me into the moment, and I very specifically focus on my breath

Nilusha Dassenaike: While you’re running?

Rebecca Ray: While I’m running. Yeah, focus on my mouth. Firstly, my nose, because I’m breathing through my nose for a little bit. And then when it gets intense, it’s all through the mouth. And I just, I just focus there. Feel the, I feel the sensations of the air coming in and going out what it’s like, for my lips, what it’s like for my tongue, all of that. And, you know, the mind wanders, absolutely the mind wanders. And I am, I like observing my mind while I’m doing that. Noticing, oh, very worried about this and why isn’t and when so I’m going to be over and you know, all of that. I just need it to be over. I need to get home. And if I get home, everything’s going to be all right. I just need to get there. But wait, wait, wait, wait, what about the present moment? Like, why can’t we just trust what’s happening right now? No, no, because it’s too it’s too much. And I just can’t it hurts too much. And so I’m having this fight. Yes, amazing fight with myself. And if I just, I’m just going to surrender to now it actually makes everything okay. Because 10 times out of 10. When I get to the end of the run, I’ve moved on to the next worry. Yeah, I’ve moved on to the next thing. You know what I’m saying?

Rebecca Ray: Yeah, absolutely. So I, I love how this shows up for you at different moments of your day. And you find a way to weave it in. It’s almost like actually, that these parts of your schedule are founded on mindfulness. It’s not like you’re bringing mindfulness to the schedule this, it’s mindfulness first, and then the schedule is built on that.

Nilusha Dassenaike: That’s really nice, thanks. I never thought about it like that.

Rebecca Ray: That’s kind of the way you’re describing it. And I love the thought of that. Because it’s then not something that you have to add to your schedule. It’s something, it’s a way of being within the schedule. So I’m really curious then about because you know, I’m constantly asking you about performing and music. How does embodied presence, this spiritual practice this way of being, how does that form a relationship between you and your creative, artistic expression, through music, or arranging or composing or whatever that may be?

Nilusha Dassenaike: That’s so beautiful. Yeah. I think, you know, what’s really funny Beck, like, because of the way I came up in music, I think the two things were so separate for a really long time, like, so when I first started singing. You know, it was all from the heart. And it was very connected. Just so connected. And

Rebecca Ray: So you were a kid then? I’m assuming

Nilusha Dassenaike: Yeah, like, you know, I don’t even really remember, like really little. Yeah, just just little and I’d write songs and just be performing all the time.

Rebecca Ray: Oh, my god, that would’ve been so cute. I can just imagine little you.

Nilusha Dassenaike: It’s so, it’s so funny. So funny, like, love songs, like writing all these little love. It was just real,

Rebecca Ray: Love songs when you’re eight.

Nilusha Dassenaike: Yeah, even younger, you know, making a song out of everything. Like that annoying thing. Yeah, your mum would tell you off. And then I just sing back. Yes, sing back the line. Yeah so annoying. Um, but the joy, the, that there’s something about being there, being it was just so connected, it was so embodied, it was so the creative, it was just so centred. And there wasn’t any judgement attached to that, you know, the older you get, and, you know, going through university with music and everything, and that being the focus of study, it becomes more about, becomes more of an intellectual exercise. And that’s fine, you know, to learn the skills is fine. It’s good, because it gives you structure, it gives you a place to house the creativity, right? Otherwise, it would, we wouldn’t get anything done. Right. Yes. Yeah. You know, and, and so, I think, I forgotten the point of your question! .

Rebecca Ray: I was asking about the relationship. No, no, you’re totally, you’re totally on. On track, even though you might have feel like you’ve lost track. I was asking about the relationship between embodied presence and your creative expression. Yeah. And you were saying that it started being, of course connected because as children, we don’t have the same barriers to the world as what we do as when we land in adulthood, let alone in formal institutions that dictate the way we must think about certain things in order to achieve certain grades. Yeah,

Nilusha Dassenaike: Exactly and so I think, you know, it’s gone full circle. And, but while I was studying, I found studying music. Singing was just always, I was just able to get there, you know, you know, music school’s tough like, it’s really it’s, it’s, it’s cutthroat.

Rebecca Ray: Yeah, I bet and probably has a fair bit of toxicity that goes with it, I’m assuming. How do you measure talent? Really?

Nilusha Dassenaike: Oh my god, oh my god. Um so but yeah, just I was just bringing those elements in like the embodied presence in, the meditative state in to what I was doing and it just was always a place of refuge, really.

Rebecca Ray: Yeah. So it was almost a coping strategy?

Nilusha Dassenaike: Hmm. For sure or more and more like a maybe a release?

Rebecca Ray: Yeah, like a resilience strategy more than anything.

Nilusha Dassenaike: Here’s this almost like, not island, but it’s like I can, there is this beautiful place that I can get to, you know, when I do this, that just, I take a breath in, and I feel it and I sing out. And it’s so calming and beautiful. And I just want to stay there.

Rebecca Ray: Stay in the note. Yeah.

Nilusha Dassenaike: Stay in the note, exactly. So I think singing is so tactile like that, you know, it’s such a, it’s such a physical exercise, it’s such a physical thing to do. So every time you draw a breath in, it’s an opportunity to connect with the present moment, just whether it’s through your nose or through your mouth, feeling the breath and following it all the way in. And then you open your mouth up, and air and sound comes out. So it’s like, it’s so kind of easy to connect into the present moment you use singing, well I use singing as a way in to presence.

Rebecca Ray: Okay, so what you’re saying is that one in the same, you’re actually saying that your embodied presence for you is creative expression and creative expression is embodied presence. We then have come from embodied presence is your spiritual practice, which means that music for you is spiritual, it’s, the whole thing is your way of being. And that’s simply expressed through if you had been a painter it would have been expressed through painting, I’m assuming, but it’s music right now. And so perhaps in the next life, you’ll be a painter, but right now, it’s the connection to your body and the physicality of singing so it’s one in the same.

Nilusha Dassenaike: Absolutely.

Rebecca Ray: Lovely ones, I hope you enjoyed part one of my chat with Nilusha Dassenaike about embodied presence. You can find Nilusha @nilusha.com. That’s N I L U S H A .com. She is also available over at sathiyasinging.com S A T H I Y A singing.com. And of course, you can track her down on the socials or listen to her amazing music on Spotify. I can’t wait to catch you for part two of this episode next week.

Rebecca Ray: Lovely ones. Thank you so much for listening to Hello, Rebecca Ray. If you’ve got something meaningful from this episode, then the most meaningful thing you can do is jump on over to wherever you listen to your podcast episodes, and leave a review. Because it’s those reviews that help this podcast stay here. Make sure to subscribe. And if you’re generous enough to share this episode, thank you so much. I love seeing your shares on social media. So please tag me, catch you next time.