Show Notes:

The episode that you’re about to tune into is with a participant of my flagship program Intentional Business, the experience for women entrepreneurs. This episode will give you a feel for exactly what Intentional Business mentoring sounds like, feels like, what it’s like to experience this transformation firsthand. And if it sounds like you, I’d love to see you in round two of intentional business.

And if it sounds like you, I’d love to see you in round two of Intentional Business. Just go to, I’d love to see you in the program.

Lovely ones Welcome to this episode of Intentional Business coaching part of our series of joining with the participants of intentional Business my flagship program for women entrepreneurs who are looking to grow their business and themselves in a mindful meaningful way.

I’m joined by one of my favourite students ever because she has pink hair and pink is my favourite colour but also because of a whole series of other reasons that you’re soon to learn by meeting her.

Karen Devenport. Karen is a writer, a lifelong learner, a Harry Potter fan. So clearly we love her, a lover of lists rarely late and a perfectionist I can testament I sorry, I can isn’t the word that’s not even the word that I want. I what is the word Karen your the word Smith testify?

Thank you, I can testify to all those things. listeners, she’s a writer. So this is why I’m going to turn to her. For all the things when I can’t think of the word that I need. She supports small business owners, entrepreneurs and creatives to do their best work by providing digital products and online services that utilise her strengths so others can focus on this. Karen, thank you so much for your time today.

Karen: Thank you for having me.

Rebecca: I love seeing your face. I’m really excited to talk today because you have been a participant in the first round of intentional business, the first one of the first of the intimate group to go through the experience.

Rebecca: And what I want to show listeners today is what it’s like to experience intentional business mentoring. So I’m probably gonna push some buttons today.

Karen: Well, that doesn’t surprise me

Rebecca: Kind of on brand, it’s on-brand from what I do. I’m gentle. We can go anywhere you want to go. So I want to start with whatever is showing up for you.

Rebecca: So as you’ve been working on your business, and on your own growth, through this kind of transformation from where you were, to the visionary that you want to be, and to leading your business in a way that feels like it’s authentic to you.

Rebecca: I’m wondering, what are the mindset struggles that have been showing up for you that you want to chat about today?

Karen: I think the big thing is I began with not having a lot of clarity around my business. And through intentional business, I’ve gained a lot of clarity over what it is that lights me up and how I can potentially use that to help other people in business.

Karen: And what’s coming through now is this thing about not feeling expert enough or qualified enough or Yeah, just a lot of fear around putting myself out there and saying, Hey, this is what I do.

Rebecca: Damn you fear.

Karen: Yes. It really does.

Rebecca: Can we just go back and can you explain why there was a lack of clarity.

Karen: So my business was made up of a whole bunch of different things. And I’d fallen into my business a little bit accidentally and picked up all these different aspects to it along the way.

Karen: A lot of it was doing things that I knew I was good at, rather than choosing to do the things I wanted to do. And I realised that I was a little bit stuck. I didn’t know how to move forward. I wanted to grow my business but didn’t know how to do that when there was so many different parts of it.

Rebecca: So it sounds like I’ve got this vision of an octopus in my head, that there’s all this kind of tentacles of the business. And what you’re trying to do is streamline, not only to, to make sure that the services that you’re offering just easier to do, you’re not doing 15 million things, but also so that those things are consistent with the type of business that you really want, rather than the type of business that you could have, just because you could do those things.

Karen: Exactly. There’s lots of things I could do. And I don’t necessarily want to be doing those things. And it’s not the best use of my strengths either.

Rebecca: I love that so much. Because it’s actually really common, that I see people who think I can do this, therefore I should.

Rebecca: It shows up in boundaries as well. So when we’re talking about boundaries, just because you could say yes to something or someone doesn’t mean you should, yeah, it means that you’re potentially giving away resources, time, energy, money, whatever it is, that belongs to you, in an unmindful way, if you just go ahead, or operate from a place of, well, I’m available to do it, I have the skills to do it, I’m good at it.

Rebecca: Therefore I should do it just because you’re good at something doesn’t necessarily equal, that that’s the thing you should be doing as part of your business. Because when you create a business, as you well know, the amount of effort that’s involved in that it’s not, it’s not a small task. It’s not a small thing.

Rebecca: And so if you’re going to go to the effort of creating a business, and you do it just based on something that you could do, then you run the risk of creating something that doesn’t really spark anything in you.

Rebecca:And you’ve just created yourself a job really, like you could have just gone and got a job doing that thing and not have all the extra effort that comes with running your own business. And so I love that. Now you’re in a place where you’ve got a little bit of clarity, and clarity, and then fee knocks on your door and say, Hi, I’m here, I’m ready to stop you in your tracks. What is the clarity that you’re experiencing? What have you decided you want to do?

Karen: So 100% I want to write and for me, I think a main focus would be creating ebooks. Yeah. And that can be both the things that I want to release ebooks on as well as writing a books, what other people, yeah, but also very open to different types of writing as well. So whether it’s blogs, podcasts, scripts, full books, anything goes really but yeah, if the focus is really on the writing.

Rebecca: I feel like we should let the listeners in on a little secret, which is Karen is one of these weird people that loves writing. Now I say this as an author with a now five books under my belt, it might be weird to actually enjoy writing, I like the I like the product at the end.

Rebecca: I like being forced to consolidate my thoughts into one place where people can go and access my work. But the actual process of writing I find incredibly laborious. And in fact, if I have to write, that’s probably when you see the best, most significant tantrums from me.

Rebecca:  Karen’s not like that, listeners, we’re not dealing with someone like that. We’re dealing with someone who can’t get over not enough of it. So I can’t tell you how happy I am to hear that 100% you want to step into your zone of genius, which is writing.


Karen: It’s so funny because I hear people talk about writer’s block. And I’m like, what the only block I have is not being able to make enough time to do more writing.

Rebecca: So jealous, like deeply jealous, deeply jealous of this talent and skill that happens to exist within you. Now, can I get an idea, I just want to get an idea of what the business is going to look like?

Rebecca: Before we deal with fear, which I promise we will. If we kind of forecast into maybe two years in the future, what does your business look like? What are you doing? What are you not doing? Who are you serving?

Karen: That’s a really good question. And probably, I think, one I haven’t quite explored yet because of that fear.

Rebecca: Sure.

Karen: I think I’m not allowing myself to dream and to imagine what this could look like.

Rebecca: this kind of shuts off and goes, fuck you. I’m not.

Karen: Yeah. Brilliant.

Rebecca: All right, well, I guess we’re dealing with fear then. Um, you know, one of the things I was going to say to you, before we before even kind of had thought about our scheduled interview today was, I wonder whether it’s not so much a lack of clarity, but a large part of fear that’s stopping you from moving forward with the ideas that you’ve got.

Rebecca: Now, can we talk about this expert thing, this qualified thing? of Gods? Why do you need to be qualified?

Karen: It’s probably a comparison thing. I think it look around and you see other people that are doing it, and they’ve got this sticker Ray, or, you know, they’ve got this wealth of published material that they refer people to, and I sort of think,

Karen: Oh, you know, just a Bally beginner. And I don’t have all of that yet. And I think, you know, when you don’t have the wealth of material, you feel like you want to say, Oh, I don’t have all that, but at least I have, you know, a bachelor in this, that all the other.

Rebecca: What, what does the university degree do? For the written material, unless the written material is specialty specific? Wow, that was an intense sentence. Um, but you know what I mean, unless you’re writing, like medical, in medical journals, or something like that, why? Why do you know why?

Karen: Yeah, I guess I feel like people won’t think I’m credible. Unless I have something. Yeah.

Rebecca: What evidence do you have for that?

Karen: Now, let’s stop talking sense!

Rebecca: Your rational brains going on? Um, it’s really interesting, because I’m now wondering, let’s just stay with the rational brain for a moment, because I don’t want to discount the fact that there will be part of you that is nodding, going, Look, I know, I know that I could still write but you know, like, it feels uncomfortable.

Rebecca: Let’s just stay on the rational side, what is it that you want to write? Is there something that means that you want to write something that does require a specialty?

Karen: No. No, I’m laughing. I think because the writing I enjoy the most is writing that is accessible to people. I’ve seen a lot of writing that, you know, where the writing is almost an art form, in itself. And while that’s a beautiful thing, that’s not my thing. My thing is, anyone can pick this up and read it, and understand or receive the message that’s being communicated.

Rebecca: Which is actually a really difficult skill and a skill that many qualified, I’m doing qualified in air quotes. Many qualified people don’t have because they write at a certain level, that means that they’re the material that they’re creating, or the concept that they’re trying to explain is not accessible for the lay person.

Rebecca: And so essentially, I’m wondering whether or not you’re the conduit, between those two things, there are concepts that the person that you want to serve your audience, there are concepts that your audience wants to explain to their audiences, but they can’t they can’t get it across in a way that you can. So you become that translator.

Karen: I like that

Rebecca: A concept translator.

Karen: Yeah.

Rebecca: And that’s, again, we’re still over on the rational side. Yes, you can, you can essentially do this. But what does fi say when I say that?

Karen: I think coming at it from that angle actually makes the dissipate a little because it’s like you’ve just blown my mind and just made me realise that fear is talking complete rubbish.

Rebecca: The other thing that you like I, again, we go back to the question that you couldn’t ask Because of fear, I’m going to paint a picture that may or may not be accurate, feel free to adjust it to make it accurate.

Rebecca: But I’m thinking in two years time, let’s say that you’re in a place where you’re creating content for yourself, you’re creating content for other people. And you offer your audience, the ability to be able to take what it is that they want to say, but a not have to actually do it.

Rebecca: So they can stay in their zone of genius in terms of being visionary about the concepts and how the concepts are going to be offered in there to their audience. So we’re talking like some kind of marketing plan, perhaps it’s, you know, this concept this month, and then we’re going into the launch of this product, which means we’ve got a lead up of those types of concepts, you’re doing all of that for them, which means you’re also a time creator, you’re not just a concept translated, but what you’re offering your audience is time.

Rebecca: And if you’re giving them back time, you’re essentially giving them the most precious resource of of all, because they’re able to hand it over to you, you operate autonomously. And you essentially create this space, space for them to be able to continue doing all the things in the business, whatever it is that is required for them to do.

Rebecca: But you’re taking the one thing that makes them want to a step themself in the eye, will be bashed their head against a brick wall. Either way, it’s not comfortable. And so you’re, you’re giving them that space back.

Rebecca: Now, what I’m thinking might also happen out of this picture is that along the way, you stumble on concepts that are really inspiring for you really motivating that you then want to put together. So that you’re building your own library of published materials, because we address the qualification thing just then.

Rebecca: But what we didn’t talk about is this kind of library that other people and I know who these other people are, but other people have that you don’t have. And the thing I want to say the bat is those other people only have that library because they wrote something.

Karen: Yeah.

Rebecca: I know you write stuff. I’m just not convinced you show anyone.

Karen: spot on! Have you been in my computer? Have you hacked in?

Rebecca: Oh, theories are funny things. So here’s what I want you to do. If you’re up for it, because it’s not the easiest thing in the world to do.

Rebecca: One of the things that’s really unhelpful for us to do is to I mean, we can joke about fear, but if we completely invalidate fear, and say, You’re an idiot, you’re just saying stupid things, then what that does is it only makes me think that we’re misunderstanding the riskier and surely, we don’t get it otherwise, we wouldn’t be joking about that.

Rebecca: And then in your unconscious, what’s going to happen is that knocking is going to get louder and more persistent, and it’s fear is gonna join its level best to hold you back. So right now, I want you to think of fear as a little person within you. How old is this fear person?

Karen: is probably six.

Rebecca: Fear six. And if you’re going to talk to a six year old, about their fears, what would you say about these fears?

Rebecca: In particular, it sounds like our little six year old fear person is frightened of being visible, frightened of being judged, frightened of not measuring up when we talk about comparison, frightened of not being good enough at the very core of all of this. So what would you say? What does this little six year old fi person need to hear?

Karen: She needs to hear very, very gently that she has some very unique gifts, and the world needs to see those gifts. The world needs what she has. Yeah.

Rebecca: What if one of her responses, but I can’t possibly put myself out there?

Karen: That’s a little harder.

Rebecca: She’s frightened of being rejected. What do you say to a six-year old that’s frightened of being rejected?

Karen: She’s loved by the people that she loves, no matter what

Rebecca: any action or possibility?

Karen: It is a possibility. Yeah. And I don’t want to say it doesn’t matter, because it would still hurt. But at the end of the day, there’s people who have her back. And we’ll always have her back.

Rebecca: And have there been times where you and this six year old have been hurt before?

Karen: Yeah.

Rebecca: And what evidence do you have for how you deal with her?

Karen: Well, I guess at the end of the day, I’m still here, and I’m still trying. So whatever happens? I know I’m resilient enough to move through it.

Rebecca: Maybe that’s what she needs reminding of as well.

Karen: Yeah.

Rebecca: Is that she’s not alone. Yep. You’ve got this. You can take it from here. And you can hold her hand?

Karen: Yeah. Yeah.

Rebecca: Because what feed normally wants us or normally believes not once, but normally believes is that fear is responsible for our safety. That’s it. Fear is responsible for our emotional and physical safety.

Rebecca: It’s not, it’s a bit more black and white. When it comes to physical safety. You know, fears got a point when it comes to physical safety. But when we’re talking about imagined emotional injuries, which is what fear is doing right now, for you, this little six year old thinks that she’s responsible for protecting all of you from any of that.

Rebecca: So I think she perhaps needs to know that she’s not alone. And she doesn’t have the responsibility for the world being okay. The world being perfectly safe, that for the times that it’s not perfectly safe in it is a bit abrasive and difficult to manage, that you’re with her and can hold her hand.

Karen: Yeah, that’s mind-blowing.

Rebecca: Can we also talk to her about the possibilities? Because sometimes when it comes to fear, we just kind of focus on the negative and the bits that she’s scared of. Maybe she also needs to know what’s possible, why the hell is this worth it?What are you creating for her?

Karen: life that she’s always wanted.  Even that six-year-old was constantly writing. Just never stopping, writing, writing, writing, writing. And I do remember that time where I thought I was going to be an author, until all the shoulds got in the way and all the kids got in the way. Yeah. So a life where I get to write, and that writing makes a difference for other people.

Rebecca: It sounds like you just answered the two-year question.

Karen: You tricked me

Rebecca: That what you’re doing in two years is a life where you get to write and that that writing influences, impacts, makes a difference inspires helps other people. That’s what she wants to do. And you’ve just told her that it’s possible that you’re This is what you’re prepared to do in order to make that happen for both of you. Yeah, all fear has to do is hold your hand. Because it’s your choice to step forward, not hers

Rebecca: She won’t make that choice. six year olds don’t make that choice. You’re making the choice for her. She just needs to understand that she’s not alone. It’s not her responsibility to protect you from the world. If you’re a bit older than six now,

Karen: Just a little

Rebecca: Been around the block a bit. And you know, shit that you didn’t know when you were six.

Karen: Yep. So I’ve got goose bumps.

Rebecca: So what does this mean? What does this mean for be intentional business that you’re creating.

Karen: That it’s time to stop hiding. It’s time to get out there and show people what I’ve got to offer, how I can help them.

Rebecca: And as much as I love that. I love specificity even more. So what would that actually look like in terms of action?

Karen: So let’s talk about the fact that I’ve got an E book for sale up on my website and haven’t told anyone that it’s there.

Rebecca: Okay, first of all, she just announced it, can I just celebrate the fact that we started this session with you going? I’m not really sure what I’m going to do in two years. And now you’re announcing to all our listeners, but not only have you written and finished an SEO on your website?

Karen: It’s there.

Rebecca: Yeah, the action is so good. But yes, no one can find it. So what do we do about?

Karen: It needs to tell people? It’s there? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Put it on the front page of my website. Yep.

Rebecca: And if you were gonna write those things, you said you were going to write for other people and for yourself? How would you find the people that you’re writing for?

Karen: I think I already have a network of people that I can start letting know that this is something I’m offering. And, yeah, you know, people who know people and a bit of word of mouth stuff.

Rebecca: So hold on a second, not only do you already have something that’s published available on your website for sale, but you also have an audience to write for.

Rebecca: And so I’m thinking the difference between you where you are today, at this time this morning, on the day that we’re recording this, and you already being in your business is just creating an offer for those people that might very well want you to write for them.

Karen: Exactly. Yeah. Wow. Things that fear can stop us from doing

Rebecca: The things that we can stop us from seeing in terms of possibility. Because the possibility is right there. If you allowed yourself you could have an offer written by this afternoon. And you could have emailed that to the potential people that you’re thinking of, or dropped it in a Facebook group that you’re a member of.

Rebecca: And I’m going to say something just came up for me intuitively, I don’t know whether it’s right or not, but I’m going to say it anyway. Some when I just said that out loud.

Rebecca: Dropping the offer in the Facebook group that perhaps you’re a member of what happened then was I felt like I heard fear, the little six year old fear, say, but what if they say yes, this there is some fear around people actually want to rock?

Karen: Yeah, like, do I actually know what I’m doing here? Is it it’s not the actual writing bit, it’s more the other gonna want to know. You know, how quickly I can turn it around how much it’s going to cost? Like, what?

Rebecca: Okay, then we get to dive a little deeper into what fees now asking a quite realistic questions. Like, okay, if I’ve got an offer here, a what, what’s the context in which this offer exists? How many clients can I take?

Rebecca: And how do I know how long it’s going to take to fulfil that particular project for that client? How do I charge in a way that is workable and not just discounting? Because fee gets loud and thinks Oh, my goodness, I’m an imposter I’m going to find be found out as a fraud here, but charging for your time legitimately so that you’re being paid for.

Rebecca: You know how to make an invoice and send it so we don’t need to answer that question. And it sounds like what fear is asking for is quite legitimate questions that are summed up as, what does this look like? If we do this? What does it look like? So you drop an offer?

Rebecca: Or hey, I’m available to write content for you. I particularly have skills in these particular topics. Let me know if you need some help. Someone does respond. And I imagine it’s almost immediately because this is so needed. And says Karen, I would love you to help me please.

Rebecca: I need this written and this written and Miss written I need a blog and a podcast script and can you please write my about page on my website? What do you say? How do you respond? And by the way, how much will it cost? Can you tell me Can you give me a quote please? And can you have it done by Monday? Because this is what people do.

Rebecca: what’s happening to make fear say those things?

Karen: I don’t have the answers. Other than Yep, I can do it. And I will love doing it. Yep. And I can probably turn things around pretty quickly, because I do love doing it. Yep. The price things, a tricky one.

Rebecca: So this is where we get intentional. This is where intention is everything. Because we can work out the answers to these things. Notice how when the emotional paralysis set in just then your answer from fi was I don’t have the answers. And notice that there’s a brick wall at the end of that statement.

Karen: It’s like, I don’t have the answers. And I’m not even going to give myself a chance to find them. Yeah.

Rebecca: I know the perfect place that you can find the answers. And that happens to be in a program called intentional Business

Karen: Imagine that.

Rebecca: What I think needs to happen is that you’re in a place where you start thinking about, remember, start as you wish to continue. What do you want to write about? Who are you saying yes to? Who is saying no to?

Rebecca: When are you planning on working? Because I just asked you to do three projects for me by Monday and today’s Friday. So I want you to think intentionally? If someone hits you with that, what’s your answer gonna be? Because it could very well be Yes, I can do a quick turnaround.

Rebecca: But the extra fee for a quick turnaround is this much. Yeah, these are the things that we need to talk through. These are the things that we’re going to find answers for, we’re going to do templates, it’s gonna there’s going to be a whole service menu, I can see it now. I’m feeling it.

Karen: I’m excited. So excited, a little bit scared, but mainly excited. Of course,

Rebecca: We will always be a little bit scared. But I want you to notice the patterns, okay? Because when fear comes up with Oh, my goodness, I don’t know, your tendency is to stop in your tracks and stay there. And then what happens is you tend to spin your wheels.

Karen: Yep.

Rebecca: There’s not a whole lot of effective action that happens as a result of that. Because when fear speaks up, I think your way of validating her up until this point, has just been believing everything that she says and staying in it with her.

Rebecca: Yeah, rather than stepping forward as the adult and being able to say, Hey, I get that you’re scared. And you know what, you’re six, you shouldn’t know the answers to this stuff. But how old are you now?, if you don’t mind saying on a 43,

Rebecca: okay, but I’m 43 I have the skills to find out the answers. And we’re going to do this together. And I get that you’ll be scared because it’s normal to be scared when we haven’t done things before when we don’t know exactly what they’re going to look like, and whether there’s some uncertainty within those things.

Rebecca: But you don’t have to do this alone fear, this is not your responsibility. We’re going to find these answers. And I just want you to hold my hand so we can keep walking forward. Rather than jumping in the sandpit with her and kind of stuck saying, you know, that’s how it feels.

Karen: Yeah, spot on. Yeah. And because I’ve never had a back to call me out on that, or I shouldn’t say call me out to see and recognise patterns. Yeah. And so I’ve stayed stuck.

Rebecca: Yeah. But that’s also not your fault. So what we do as human beings is very much about self protection. And all you’ve been doing is protecting her. She’s been saying, I am so frightened, that if you drag me forward into this place, I don’t think I can handle it. And you’ve been going all? Well, if she can’t handle it, I can’t handle it.

Rebecca: So we shouldn’t do it. And what you’ve essentially been doing is wrapping her up, and that’s okay. In fact, I would say that’s the first step whenever we’re dealing with unconscious fear, unconscious, resentments, unhealed hurts limiting beliefs or scripts that aren’t helping us all this stuff that lives in our unconscious.

Rebecca: The first step is to validate and to wrap the six year old up and say, I see your pain and I see the fear. It’s just the next step that you’ve had trouble with. And the next step is hold my hand and let’s walk forward because I know the way and for the bits that I don’t know the way I know how to find out the way because sometimes we just have to do things to move forward.

Karen: Yeah, and it’s funny because I am the kind of person who normally goes out and finds answers, but when that fear is there Yeah, it’s very different. I do just tend to stop. I have in the past, tempted to stop

Rebecca: Someone has removed the screen that was sitting in front of you. And that’s you.

Rebecca: Because the scariness of it all might not change. But what you do in response to that scariness will be different.

Karen: Very much very much.

Rebecca: So how are you feeling right now?

Karen: Oh, I’m excited. Yeah. Still a little bit scared.

Karen: But yeah, ready to tackle things ready to stop stopping? Yeah. And yeah, start finding those answers that I need to move forward.

Rebecca: I love that so much. And because there are a lot of entrepreneurs listening to us right now, there might be a stack of people that need exactly what you can create for them as a content or concept translator. Where can people find more about you, Karen?

Karen: They can find me on my website, which is And on pretty much all the socials @KarenDevenport.

Rebecca: Excellent. And that’s Devenport. Just to make sure that people find the right Karen that we’re talking about. Just look for the pink hair. You’ll see her. Karen, it has been an absolute pleasure, thank you for being brave enough to get vulnerable with me.

Rebecca: One of the things I love most about you is that when I asked you to step up, you always do. And sometimes that means that I make you look at stuff that perhaps feels emotional or a little overwhelming in the moment, but you never look away. And I love that so much about you.

Rebecca: And this is how we create the life that you dream of is that you don’t stop looking away. Sorry, you don’t keep looking away. You look ahead, look at look at it, face it and then step forward towards it. So thank you so much for being here with me today. and can’t wait for people to get their hands on all the things that you create.

Rebecca: And for those of you that are thinking, well, what’s the book that she’s selling on our website, Karen has written a book on how to start a business in Australia, which I wish I had in 2007 when I started a business and knew nothing.

Rebecca: Quite literally nothing. I didn’t even know what was supposed to go on an invoice. So that ebook is available on Karen’s website. Please check that out. Karen, you are just a firework. As I always say, I totally believe in Katy Perry’s term for you. Thank you for being with me. And thank you for just being such an inspiration when it comes to brave and meaningful living.

Karen: Thank you for everything and just so excited to be on this journey with your support means the world. Thank you, Karen. You’re so beautiful.

Rebecca: Lovely ones. I hope you enjoyed that episode as much as I did. If intentional business mentoring sounds like you if it sounds like exactly the thing that you need. I would love to see you in round two of my program intentional business, the experience for women entrepreneurs, you can sign up at

Rebecca: Lovely ones. Thank you so much for listening to Hello, Rebecca Ray. If you’ve got something meaningful from this episode, and the most meaningful thing you can do is jump on over to wherever you listen to your podcast episodes and leave a review. Because it’s those reviews that help this podcast stay here. Make sure to subscribe.

Rebecca: And if you’re generous enough to share this episode, thank you so much. I love seeing your shares on social media. So please tag me, catch you next time.